advice on my rights as a private tenant/no agreement signed.

Katya249

Hi,

First post on here.. Just to give some context, my partner and I are renting a room in a flat owned by the parents of an acquaintance. We took the room as it's fairly cheap, a good friend rented it for a year before us, and we just needed somewhere to be as an interim whilst we look for our own flat to rent together.

We did not partake in any tenancy agreement or pay a deposit etc it was just done on good faith and the fact we know and have friends in common with their daughter who also lives here.

As far as I'm aware the landlord has not declared us officially as we are not paying council tax, as his daughter living here is a student. We just pay him direct debit each month.

My partner and I were under the belief we were able to stay until the beginning of September. However we've just received notice from the landlord saying that he was under the impression we would leave on the 17th of August (the original plan before we decided we wanted to stay longer) and that as we are still in the flat, we are trespassing and he is threatening legal action.

We have paid him rent covering a stay up until September but he says this will be returned and he wants us out.

As far as I'm aware nobody else is due to take the room, and he knows, as does his daughter who lives here, that our intention was to stay until September.

So I'm basically looking for any advice regarding mine and my partner's rights with it brings a verbal and causal agreement. We have nowhere else to stay at the moment and could not possibly move all out possessions out at such short notice.

Many Thanks!
A worried Tennant

ViolaLass

Council tax is your responsibility, not his.

G_M

Katya249 wrote: »

Hi,

First post on here.. Just to give some context, my partner and I are renting a room in a flat owned by the parents of an acquaintance. We took the room as it's fairly cheap, a good friend rented it for a year before us, and we just needed somewhere to be as an interim whilst we look for our own flat to rent together.

We did not partake in any tenancy agreement or pay a deposit etc it was just done on good faith and the fact we know and have friends in common with their daughter who also lives here.

As far as I'm aware the landlord has not declared us officially as we are not paying council tax, as his daughter living here is a student.
are you also students? If so, the property is CT exempt. If not, CT is payable (probably by you).
We just pay him direct debit each month. You pay who? The non-resident owner? Or the daughter you share with?
If owner, you are tenants.
If daughter, you are lodgers.

My partner and I were under the belief we were able to stay until the beginning of September.
varbally agreed? Precise wording??
However we've just received notice from the landlord saying that he was under the impression we would leave on the 17th of August (the original plan before we decided we wanted to stay longer) and that as we are still in the flat, we are trespassing and he is threatening legal action.
What kind of a notice? A phone call? A letter? Email? Formal S21 Notice?

We have paid him rent covering a stay up until September but he says this will be returned and he wants us out.
Much depends if you are tenants or lodgers.

As far as I'm aware nobody else is due to take the room, irrelevent and he knows, as does his daughter who lives here, that our intention was to stay until September.
Back to the wording of the original agreement. You seem to have changed your minds from Aug 17th to Sept 1st. When/how did this happen?

So I'm basically looking for any advice regarding mine and my partner's rights with it brings a verbal and causal agreement. We have nowhere else to stay at the moment and could not possibly move all out possessions out at such short notice.

Many Thanks!
A worried Tennant

'Tenant'.

If your landlord is the daughter, and you pay her the rent, you have few rights since you are sharing with your LL.

If your landlord is the Iowner you are tenants and cannot be evicted except by a court following service of a S21 Notice.

Read:

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Nearlyold

Beginning of September is only a fortnight away.

Where were you planning to move to given that you say you were expecting to move out shortly anyway?

Given the short timescale before you were due to move out cannot see that the landlord would gain much with any legal action

booksurr

ViolaLass wrote: »

Council tax is your responsibility, not his.

incorrect
a room (not the whole property) is let to the OP and another is occupied by daughter who is not connected to the OP. The OP appears to pay rent direct to the father, not the daughter, and therefore it is an HMO for council tax purposes. As such the LL is legally liable for the CT, not the occupants.

OP , based on who you pay rent to you cannot be lodgers of the daughter therefore you must be tenants with an undocumented tenancy. As such the LL must follow due legal process to obtain possession and then seek eviction.

Obviously it is only a matter of time before he succeeds and you will be forced to move. How difficult you want to make it before then is up to you. You state that your original plan was to leave in Aug and then changed your mind, what evidence do you have that you informed the LL?

as for legal status:
- when did you move in? The LL cannot serve a Section 21 no fault possession notice until the first 6 months have passed. If they have then he must serve a S21 giving you 2 months notice. As it appears you are only interested in staying until Sept there is no pint in forcing the LL to get legal as you will be gone before he can get to court anyway

I think it's time for negotiation not blustering about "my rights" which will be irrelevant by Sept anyway as you were going to leave then anyway

Katya249

Thanks for the swift response!

It is indeed her parents who own the flat and to whom we are paying rent.

It's just all a bit murky and completely out of the blue to us that they want us to leave so suddenly. There is nowhere in writing that we agreed vacate on the 17th, nor that we are to stay until September hence my asking.

Thanks for the link, will take a look.

Katya249

We have only been renting since June 17th.

I met him personally whilst he was at the flat and told him it would be likely we would want to extend our stay.

Following this his daughter asked us if we'd decided on a date and we confirmed the end of August/beginning of September to be when we would likely leave. We were told that the room could be ours as long as we needed it so we continued to pay rent.

Obviously living with his daughter and knowing her personally, and receiving no word from him, I assumed that our continuing to rent was fine.

It's not so much blaring on about my rights but as I've never rented unofficially before I'm just a little unsure of the legal situation, especially as he's threatens legal action and talk of trespassing etc.

We have a flat to move to which is in another city, we are negotiating the move in date to coincide with starting new jobs during the first week of September.

gazter

You are a tenant. Remind him that you are a tenant and that you will call the police if he contacts you again. Then leave in September if you wish. It will take him ages to get you out force ably.

If he comes to your home to try to get you out, immediately ring the police.

HappyMJ

Katya249 wrote: »

We have only been renting since June 17th.

I met him personally whilst he was at the flat and told him it would be likely we would want to extend our stay.

Following this his daughter asked us if we'd decided on a date and we confirmed the end of August/beginning of September to be when we would likely leave. We were told that the room could be ours as long as we needed it so we continued to pay rent.

Obviously living with his daughter and knowing her personally, and receiving no word from him, I assumed that our continuing to rent was fine.

It's not so much blaring on about my rights but as I've never rented unofficially before I'm just a little unsure of the legal situation, especially as he's threatens legal action and talk of trespassing etc.

We have a flat to move to which is in another city, we are negotiating the move in date to coincide with starting new jobs during the first week of September.

Still a bit confused as to who your LL actually is and without a written tenancy agreement it's difficult. If the daughter is asking you if you'd like to stay then she could be your LL. She doesn't always need to own the place to be your LL....but then she's not the one asking you to leave she's asking you when you'd like to leave and saying you can stay as long as you pay rent so either way you can ignore the owner as the owner should be asking his daughter to ask you to leave or giving you the correct notice to seek possession.

booksurr

HappyMJ wrote: »

Still a bit confused as to who your LL actually is and without a written tenancy agreement it's difficult. If the daughter is asking you if you'd like to stay then she could be your LL. She doesn't always need to own the place to be your LL....but then she's not the one asking you to leave she's asking you when you'd like to leave and saying you can stay as long as you pay rent so either way you can ignore the owner as the owner should be asking his daughter to ask you to leave or giving you the correct notice to seek possession.

what the daughter asks or not is trumped by who the rent is paid to = the father > he is the LL and the OP is a tenant. Not difficult, daughter is behaving no differently to an agent of the father acting as go between

G_M

Yes. Sounds like dad is the landlord and daughter is acting as informal go-between ie 'agent'.

OP is a tenant, with tenancy rights.

Landlord must use a S21 before seeking to evict, and S21 cannot expire within first 6 months of the tenancy which seems to have started on 17/6/15. So earliest LL can seek possession is 16/12/15.

On the other hand, tenant must serve proper notice. Given the lack of agreement regarding any fixed term, this tenancy appears to be a Contractual Periodic Tenancy.

There appears to be no contractually agreed notice period, so the default notice period would be one full tenancy period. Since tenancy periods run from 17th to 16th of each month, notice must end on 16th.

It is unclear if formal notice has actually been served by OP yet. Notice should be served in writing, and specify the end date of the tenancy. If served today (19th) it's too late to leave on Sept 16th so notice should expire on 16th Oct.

However, given that LL wants you to leave it should be possible to mutually agree an earlier end date.

A further relevant factor might be the lack of an address for serving notices. Were you given this, in writing? If not, you do not have o pay rent. At all (at least not till it is provided). See:

Landlord and Tenant Act 1987


* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?