Paying builders.

kaya

You pay in stages , one when the site is cleared and ready, one when the footings are all done, one when the walls are up, one when the roof is on and the windows are in, one on first fix, one on second fix etc.etc.. Never offer to pay weekly or fortnightly, never pay upfront, never pay for materials seperatly. Any builder who asks for timed payments( not staged on completion of works) would send me running as would asking for a deposit, or money up front for materials. People get several quotes then pick the cheapest one and expect the best quality and service which is where the problem lies, if you pay peanuts you should expect a chimps tea party. Use professional experienced builders, get references and visit a few of their previous jobs. I am about to undertake a £60,000 project and after seeing the Cowboys refurbishing the house opposite me I wound be employing the cheapest quote, they haven't even managed to get the footings for the porch level and have had to use a "half height brick" in one wall to make the roof level , I shudder to think what else they have bodged up with the rest of the house, they had the windows out of the front bay for 6 hours with no acrows in, no sign of any scaffolding at all over 4 months, the list is endless but as they say "you gets what you pays for "

teneighty

I would agree with Kaya's post. Stage payments should be based on progress not time.

Industry standard is to undertake monthly valuations of work completed. The frequency of valuations could be shortened for small residential jobs if the builder is too small to have the cash flow to cover monthly payments.

A deposit and advance payments for materials sounds very dodgy. I suspect they are using your money to finish off the last job. This is not uncommon but can go horribly wrong when payments dry up or are delayed.

southcoastrgi

asking for a 10% deposit is perfectly normal in the building industry as is asking the builder for a contract & schedule of works, stage payments are exactly that, money recieved for works completed, now this could be every 2 weeks or every 4 weeks,

some of you are saying i wouldn't pay a deposit now this is wrong, the start of a job like an extension will req very little in materials but will require alot of labour, so two weeks into the job the builder has dug foundations, poured concrete, put footings in, now what happens if the customer decides they don't want to pay ? the builder has no materials to remove from the job to get a refund, so he is now out of pocket & faces what could be a long court battle to get paid for the work he's done,

if there is no trust between you & the builder why are you employing him ?

try ordering new windows or a new kitchen from any of the major companies, all of them will req you to pay a deposit, it's how the building industry works

southcoastrgi

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

You got it wrong and no need to explode.

Not leave him a little short, leave him a little short until the job is done. But never leave him owed very much. So when he has done the job he is paid in full.

Anyone in employment is in more or less the position I am proposing - the employer nearly always owes some money.

Now tell me, do you get a customers to pay ahead of the progress you make on a job?

i agree it's called a retention which should be a resonable amount of time, if you have any snags then this gives the trade time to sort them out, although if things are sorted as the job progresses then there shouldn't really be alot of snags to sort out,

no i don't get paid for works i haven't completed but i do expect to get paid when I have done them, so tell me why do customers say "can you send me your invoice" & then i might get paid somewhen in the next 30 days, do you go into tesco's get your shopping & say i'll be back to pay ? so why do people treat trades like that ?

DandelionPatrol

southcoastrgi wrote: »

i agree it's called a retention which should be a resonable amount of time, if you have any snags then this gives the trade time to sort them out, although if things are sorted as the job progresses then there shouldn't really be alot of snags to sort out,

no i don't get paid for works i haven't completed but i do expect to get paid when I have done them, so tell me why do customers say "can you send me your invoice" & then i might get paid somewhen in the next 30 days, do you go into tesco's get your shopping & say i'll be back to pay ? so why do people treat trades like that ?

When you go to Tesco, you can be sure that when you pay, you will get an itemised receipt.

I imagine if you go to your job where you have the 'send me your invoice' conversation, if you had the invoice ready, you might be paid on the spot more often. What I would be thinking is I want the invoice as evidence of YOU having done the job, so if I pay you without the invoice, I would be more vulnerable to you going flaky if there was any comeback on the job

DandelionPatrol

southcoastrgi wrote: »

if there is no trust between you & the builder why are you employing him ?

Home owner has a house and the tradesman knows where it is. Tradesman has white van with nothing on it or just his mobile number if you are lucky.

Thus the relationship can be unequal in terms of accountability.

ceredigion

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Home owner has a house and the tradesman knows where it is. Tradesman has white van with nothing on it or just his mobile number if you are lucky.

Thus the relationship can be unequal in terms of accountability.

You are employing the wrong kind of builder. The very first thing I do when meeting a new client is give them a business card with my full name, business name, address, phone numbers (home and mobile), and email address . Plus van is sign written.

southcoastrgi

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

When you go to Tesco, you can be sure that when you pay, you will get an itemised receipt.

I imagine if you go to your job where you have the 'send me your invoice' conversation, if you had the invoice ready, you might be paid on the spot more often. What I would be thinking is I want the invoice as evidence of YOU having done the job, so if I pay you without the invoice, I would be more vulnerable to you going flaky if there was any comeback on the job

that's the reason i say it's ok i'll write it out now for you
you then get i haven't got any cash or my chq book has run out, i say that's ok I'll get my machine out of the van & you can pay by card, however not every trade can take cards, but what do you do if they say they haven't got any cards ?

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Home owner has a house and the tradesman knows where it is. Tradesman has white van with nothing on it or just his mobile number if you are lucky.

Thus the relationship can be unequal in terms of accountability.

goggle is a wonderful thing before you employ the trade, but yet again you have no trust in the trade & think they are going to disappear in their un-written white van, the only good thing about knowing where the customer lives unless you are going to send the heavies in is that you know where to send the court papers to

hels234

southcoastrgi wrote: »

So you got someone recommended from trading standards, from your post I can't see you have had any probs with them, yet you say if you had paid the retention you would never see the builder again !!

We aren't all cowboys you know, people like you really p**s me off

Hi, we've had tonnes of problems with our builder, despite being trading standards recommended. I wouldn't say he's a complete cowboy but he's had to rectify so many mistakes that I don't think he's made enough money on our job so is very reluctant to do the final finishes as per contract. Trading standards have offered to mediate but also advised us to send a letter detailing the outstanding work and a time period to finish. If he doesn't, we've been advised to deduct the cost from the final amount we owe him. To be fair, he hasn't asked or invoiced us for this final amount yet and has already agreed to some deductions for damage caused. He's a nice enough guy and the rest of the work has been ok but we're now 3 months over and have 2 leaking taps, a bathroom that's only part way to first fix (he fell out with his plumber part way through) and a kitchen floor with hollow tiles just to list a few of the issues. He's moved onto other jobs and we're just not a priority to him. If we'd paid everything, no I really don't think we'd have seen him again, what incentive would he have to come back?? We would be left to find more money to finish his work and only the court system to recoup it. As far as us paying him, he used to invoice us every two weeks, often bringing it to a meeting, detailing what work had been completed and the cost. This was what he proposed when quoting for the job, at no point did he ask for a retainer or to be paid before work was done. We always paid either immediately at the meeting or the next day which he was happy with (his contract asked for payment within three days).

Furts

hels234 wrote: »

Hi, we've had tonnes of problems with our builder, despite being trading standards recommended. I wouldn't say he's a complete cowboy but he's had to rectify so many mistakes that I don't think he's made enough money on our job so is very reluctant to do the final finishes as per contract. Trading standards have offered to mediate but also advised us to send a letter detailing the outstanding work and a time period to finish. If he doesn't, we've been advised to deduct the cost from the final amount we owe him. To be fair, he hasn't asked or invoiced us for this final amount yet and has already agreed to some deductions for damage caused. He's a nice enough guy and the rest of the work has been ok but we're now 3 months over and have 2 leaking taps, a bathroom that's only part way to first fix (he fell out with his plumber part way through) and a kitchen floor with hollow tiles just to list a few of the issues. He's moved onto other jobs and we're just not a priority to him. If we'd paid everything, no I really don't think we'd have seen him again, what incentive would he have to come back?? We would be left to find more money to finish his work and only the court system to recoup it. As far as us paying him, he used to invoice us every two weeks, often bringing it to a meeting, detailing what work had been completed and the cost. This was what he proposed when quoting for the job, at no point did he ask for a retainer or to be paid before work was done. We always paid either immediately at the meeting or the next day which he was happy with (his contract asked for payment within three days).

Did you check out the builder's address, vans, previous work, past customers, general professionalism... before engaging him?

Did you have a qualified professional survey the location, draw up the project, apply for Regulations, draw up a specification, produce working drawings, vet the potential builders, scrutinise the weakness with different quotes, advise on placing a contract, source materials, produce a schedule of payments, inspect the ongoing work...

Have you been proactive and switched on to the intricacies of the building industry from the moment you came up with the idea of wanting some building work undertaken?

I would be interested in you feedback.