Estate Agent "vetting"

Landofwood

kinger101 wrote: »

If they try this !!!!!!!!, write to the vendor explaining that you'd like to view the property, but the EA is being obstructive. They don't need to see deposits/AIP before an offer is made. Also tell EAs you'll never use any service they recommend, and that it's not open for discussion.

This is just awful advice. You'll be looking for a home for years if you behave like this.

But at least you've retained your principles.

kinger101

Landofwood wrote: »

This is just awful advice. You'll be looking for a home for years if you behave like this.

But at least you've retained your principles.

Not really. You just need to be firm and polite. The few agents I did say this to understood, and I got viewings. They're not going to turn away a potential buyer. They'd do exactly the same in my position I'm sure if they were given the hard sell.

And for what it's worth, I found most EAs were very nice rather than the disgusting human beings you described them as. Perhaps that's why I'm able to stand my ground with then rather than worrying about offending them.

kinger101

HereBeDragons wrote: »

Re asking about deposit amount - are they doing that to satisfy themselves that you are good for the deposit which needs to be transferred up the chain at a later stage by your conveyancer?

It's probably more a case of knowing the extent to which a mortgage is likely to become difficult if a bank valuation comes short. If someones only got 10% deposit, and the bank undervalues by £10K, they probably wouldn't be able to proceed. Someone with 25% deposit however would probably be able to go for an 80% mortgage instead, at a not dissimilar interest rate. If two identical (or very close) offers come in, the person with more equity has the upper hand.

Whatever you do, don't lie about having a larger deposit than you actually have, like someone has suggested. Once you've made an offer, the EA will require confirmation of deposit/equity from either your solicitor or from bank statements.

Landofwood

kinger101 wrote: »

Not really. You just need to be firm and polite. The few agents I did say this to understood, and I got viewings. They're not going to turn away a potential buyer. They'd do exactly the same in my position I'm sure if they were given the hard sell.

And for what it's worth, I found most EAs were very nice rather than the disgusting human beings you described them as. Perhaps that's why I'm able to stand my ground with then rather than worrying about offending them.

I said "many" not "most" or "all".

And yes they will turn away a potential buyer in favour of one that is cooperating. Of course if you're the only potential buyer then you might just be selected - most of the time that's not the case.

HereBeDragons_2

Landofwood wrote: »

I've said this a few times before, but I'll say it again. If you want to find a home, be nice to the Estate Agents. Many of them are disgusting human beings, but the buying process in England gives them so much power.

Co-operate with them 100%. Be their best friend. You don't have to tell them the truth if you don't want to (e.g. inflate the size of your deposit), but make them think you are the nicest most cooperative buyer they've ever had.

Tell them that you'd like them to recommend additional services to "make the sale go smoother", e.g. solicitor, surveyor. And then don't use any of them.

They will be frothing at the mouth to find you a property. You will be the first person they call BEFORE the property is even marketed. They will big you up to the vendor and discourage them from selecting other buyers.

They play the game, so you can too.

I'm well aware this is a hideous game to be played, and that I hold very few cards. I am super nice to estate agents, and today was the first time I've had to be assertive with one. Interestingly, the first agent who demanded I provide AIP and deposit proof in order to view a property has since been emailing me with properties and offering viewings - suggesting it's not that 'mandatory' at his agency after all.

I do find it unacceptable that I can't register to view a property without disclosing full finances, and if I were a vendor I'd be most annoyed at this. I'm a potential buyer who has been needlessly turned away today. I've politely declined agents pushing products several times, and it's not stopped me getting a viewing before.

Landofwood, with these requests you are not in a position to inflate your deposit size, because you've had to provide proof of it before you've even got through the door to see a property. I would be worried about stringing agents along with 'oh yes, I'm interested in all your lovely products' because once an offer is accepted and you turn around and say thanks but no thanks to an agent who was expecting a nice juicy extra commission from you, what's to stop them trying to scupper things by telling the vendor you've started messing them around and that they now doubt you're good for the offer? A hacked-off agent could easily make you look unreliable in a vendor's eyes post-offer, especially if you haven't met the vendor on the one opportunity you get in these parts to see the property - the open day viewing - and it seems a bit of a risky strategy to me.

I absolutely get your point re playing the game and I'll be cooperative and lovely throughout the process, but I guess I'm trying to strike a balance between that and not allowing myself to be shafted by being forced to reveal my finances early on. If I don't find that balance and keep my AIP and deposit details close to my chest until it's time to engage a solicitor I'll end up completely unable to negotiate when I should after all, being a chain-free buyer, be a pretty attractive prospect to a vendor.

HereBeDragons_2

Gosh, quite a bit of disagreement going on here!

I thought it was the case that your solicitor only needs to confirm you are good for the deposit amount which will need to be passed along the chain (10% of the purchase price, usually?), rather than the full deposit you are providing for mortgage purposes?

I've got a good deposit so I'm looking at 65-75% LTV depending what I end up buying; being in London it's the affordability of the rest of it that's the issue! I'd certainly rather not disclose any information about my AIP or deposit at any stage when I don't need to, especially if my solicitor can do it instead.

kinger101

I know from first hand experience that this can be be the case. And incidentally this was on a property where I wasn't the only bidder and my bid was accepted.

The problem with your sycophantic approach to EAs is the first service they try so sell you is a session with their mortgage advisor. If you think that someone who shares an office with the vendors EA should be going through your finances to determine exactly how much you can afford is a good idea, you've a lot to learn about negotiating skills.

When they're recommending surveyors and conveyancing services to you, it's because your offer has been accepted, and they are hardly likely to pull the plug at that stage.

In my part of the country, it's still the vendors who decide who buys their house.

Landofwood

kinger101 wrote: »

You might say it's rubbish, but I know from first hand experience that this can be be the case. And incidentally this was on a property where I wasn't the only bidder and my bid was accepted.

The problem with your sycophantic approach to EAs is the first service they try so sell you is a session with their mortgage advisor. If you think that someone who shares an office with the vendors EA should be going through your finances to determine exactly how much you can afford is a good idea, you've a lot to learn about negotiating skills.

When they're recommending surveyors and conveyancing services to you, it's because your offer has been accepted, and they are hardly likely to pull the plug at that stage.

In my part of the country, it's still the vendors who decide who buys their house.

A solicitor will not share your deposit size with an EA. Perhaps you also live in a part of the country where data laws do not apply?

If you think vendors pick buyers you are naive.

"Well Kinger101 has made a good offer Mr Vendor, but we have serious concerns about his finances. He was very sheepish with us and our experience tells us he could be a time waster. Did I mention that we have the best record in the county for sales going through Mr Vendor? The good news is that we have another buyer who is super keen with rock solid finances. They are in love with your home and have agreed to use our in house solicitor so we can oversee the whole process"

How many vendors would fall for that?

kinger101

Landofwood wrote: »

A solicitor will not share your deposit size with an EA. Perhaps you also live in a part of the country where data laws do not apply?

If you think vendors pick buyers you are naive.

"Well Kinger101 has made a good offer Mr Vendor, but we have serious concerns about his finances. He was very sheepish with us and our experience tells us he could be a time waster. Did I mention that we have the best record in the county for sales going through Mr Vendor? The good news is that we have another buyer who is super keen with rock solid finances. They are in love with your home and have agreed to use our in house solicitor so we can oversee the whole process"

How many vendors would fall for that?

Er....my solicitor would confirm I had a deposit if I instructed them to do so (and I'd provided the evidence). They don't need to give the actual amount anyway. They can just say the DIP + deposit is sufficient for the offer price. But at the end of the day, this isn't something I did. I'd not even raised solicitors confirmations. I just sent a copy of a statement from a savings account when I put in my offer (and not before), together with an AIP. Whereas you'd be struggling to confirm you had the deposit you lied about for some unfathomable reason.

I've never had an offer rejected for withholding information. I've had one rejected because we couldn't meet on price, but the discussions with the EA remained polite at all times.

I've only over gone head to head with other buyers once, and my bid won. So there's no point trying to say my approach has failed me.

I'm not sure what you're arguing about. You seem to suggest lying is a good way of building up a relationship with an Estate Agent. If you were less abrupt with people, perhaps you'd be able to handle the EA honestly without offending them. The are other ways to cement the relationship with them, such as giving honest feedback on viewings, and turning up on time, everytime.

Herbalus

Landofwood wrote: »

A solicitor will not share your deposit size with an EA. Perhaps you also live in a part of the country where data laws do not apply?

Though it isn't the solicitor that will disclose the deposit size - it's the in house mortgage [STRIKE]advisor[/STRIKE] salesperson who can often sit in the same office as the estate agents. And then the EAs hear you talk about the size of your deposit as the office door is left open....

I once went along to one of these "compulsory" mortgage advisory meetings because it was the OH who called the agents and they told her it was mandatory. I then told the mortgage advisor that the only reason we were there was because the agents said we had to, and that I'd prefer to stick to my whole-of-market advisor so didn't see the need to disclose my salary.