Why can't Oyster/TFL calculate fares properly

imaginarynumber

Yesterday I travelled (off peak) from West London (zone 5) to South West London (zone 4) via zone 2.

The fare should have been £1.50, I was charged £4.60.

Had the system assumed that I had travelled during the peak period it would have charged me £2.80.

Had it assumed that I had travelled via zone 1 the fare would have been £4.70 (peak) or £3.10 (off peak).

£4.60 only appears on the TFL fares list as a zone 2-9 journey.

My journey history correctly shows £0.00 for interchanging at White City/Wood Lane and then £0.00 for Hammersmith (H&M)/Hammersmith (Pic&Dis), it doesn't show the final interchange (Richmond District to South Western Trains) made via the pink Oyster reader at Richmond (which flashed up the words interchange when I used it) but the final listing on the journey route correctly shows my start and finish destination.

On the way home, I did query the charge with TFL staff at two different stations, unfortunately TFL's policy of closing ticket offices means that they were unable to assist.

I appreciate that I can phone TFL on an 0345 or email them but I do wonder how many other people are being charged incorrect fares each day.

I had 3 overcharges last week. I noticed 2 and had them refunded and TFL noticed 1 and automatically emailed me to refund me (no idea which fare that was). One of those over charges almost made me miss my 2 trains an hour service as I scrambled to find my ATM card to top up (the Network Rail machine doesn't accept for Oyster top ups).

dzug1

I think there is a higher fare for a journey involving southwest trains - £3.40/£2.40


https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/national-rail-adult-fares.pdf


page 4


But very well hidden on the TfL site. Still doesn't resolve your query though

peachyprice

imaginarynumber wrote: »

On the way home, I did query the charge with TFL staff at two different stations, unfortunately TFL's policy of closing ticket offices means that they were unable to assist.

Gateline staff have access to exactly the same information on the ticket machines that ticket office staff had in their offices.

I' hazard a guess that it was an ex ticket office person disgruntled at having to come out of their cosy office if they told you otherwise.

imaginarynumber

Thanks Dzug1


The last leg of my journey, Richmond to North Sheen isn't one of the special fares.

imaginarynumber

peachyprice wrote: »

Gateline staff have access to exactly the same information on the ticket machines that ticket office staff had in their offices.

I' hazard a guess that it was an ex ticket office person disgruntled at having to come out of their cosy office if they told you otherwise.

The last Station Assistant did try to resolve it but when he logged into the Osyter ticket machine the only journey that he had access to was my return journey which had been charged correctly. He explained that previous journeys are not accessible.

agrinnall

Rather than complaining on here, have you actually contacted TfL? I found it quite easy to get an incorrect charge refunded.

https://tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/

peachyprice

imaginarynumber wrote: »

The last Station Assistant did try to resolve it but when he logged into the Osyter ticket machine the only journey that he had access to was my return journey which had been charged correctly. He explained that previous journeys are not accessible.

Perhaps is was a tech error that day/user error, but they normally have access to your whole journey history.

cosmojohnson

imaginarynumber wrote: »

Yesterday I travelled (off peak) from West London (zone 5) to South West London (zone 4) via zone 2.

The fare should have been £1.50, I was charged £4.60.

Had the system assumed that I had travelled during the peak period it would have charged me £2.80.

Had it assumed that I had travelled via zone 1 the fare would have been £4.70 (peak) or £3.10 (off peak).

Try putting your journey into the TfL Single Fare Finder tool. An example journey from South Ruislip (I'm using a random NW London station in zone 5) to North Sheen shows as £4.60 unless you take the alternative routes shown. Looks like your White City/Wood Lane route isn't one recognised so, as the notes to that page say you have fallen into the category of "Some journeys are charged via Zone 1 irrespective of the route taken".

The reason why it's more than the £1.50 you are expecting is probably a) it's assumed travel via zone 1 and b) you are travelling on both tube and National Rail, so the "through fares" table of this document apply. Also have a read of this page for more info.

I had 3 overcharges last week. I noticed 2 and had them refunded and TFL noticed 1 and automatically emailed me to refund me (no idea which fare that was). One of those over charges almost made me miss my 2 trains an hour service as I scrambled to find my ATM card to top up (the Network Rail machine doesn't accept for Oyster top ups).

Of course if your bank card is contactless you can always use that next time instead.

imaginarynumber

cosmojohnson wrote: »

Try putting your journey into the TfL Single Fare Finder tool. An example journey from South Ruislip (I'm using a random NW London station in zone 5) to North Sheen shows as £4.60 unless you take the alternative routes shown. Looks like your White City/Wood Lane route isn't one recognised so, as the notes to that page say you have fallen into the category of "Some journeys are charged via Zone 1 irrespective of the route taken".

The reason why it's more than the £1.50 you are expecting is probably a) it's assumed travel via zone 1 and b) you are travelling on both tube and National Rail, so the "through fares" table of this document apply. Also have a read of this page for more info.



Of course if your bank card is contactless you can always use that next time instead.

Well done, you seem to have found the bug in their system.

Wood Lane to White City is however an official interchange. See the connecting lines on the following map

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube

So it seems that I was charged £3.10 for travelling into zone 1 and then charged an addition £1.50 for leaving the TFL network and then rejoining it. Neither event actually happened.

Looking at the alternative route in your link, it looks like the fare should have been £2.10 and not the £1.50 that I had assumed.

That said the TFL price still doesn't make sense if you calculate the route using the data in listed on their site - off peak zones 5 to 2 is £1.50. If I add the Richmond to North Sheen train (as per your link) I would be charged (Network Rail zones 4-3) £1.90 which is a total of £3.40, TFL however quote £2.10

Apropos using my bank card- the NFC (contactless) element stopped working some months ago. Additionally I am the kind of person that never reads his bank statements and would not notice overcharges

cosmojohnson

imaginarynumber wrote: »

Wood Lane to White City is however an official interchange. See the connecting lines on the following map

I know it's an interchange, just that for whatever reason TfL don't seem to have recognised that route for that particular journey. Perhaps you should contact them and request they update their journey/fares database?

So it seems that I was charged £3.10 for travelling into zone 1 and then charged an addition £1.50 for leaving the TFL network and then rejoining it. Neither event actually happened.

If you ended your journey on SWT then you have left the TfL network?

Looking at the alternative route in your link, it looks like the fare should have been £2.10 and not the £1.50 that I had assumed.

That said the TFL price still doesn't make sense if you calculate the route using the data in listed on their site - off peak zones 5 to 2 is £1.50. If I add the Richmond to North Sheen train (as per your link) I would be charged (Network Rail zones 4-3) £1.90 which is a total of £3.40, TFL however quote £2.10

You need to look at the journey as a whole, not just adding bits together. The TfL page I linked to earlier states "If your journey involves travelling on both TfL and National Rail services, look at the 'National Rail through fares' table". South Ruislip to North Sheen is thus defined as a "through fare" journey, so per the table on page 4 and the single fare finder is £4.60 via zone 1 (which in your case the system has assumed, as for whatever reason Wood Lane isn't a default interchange for that trip), £2.40 (zones 2-5) via Clapham Jct or £2.10 (3-5) via Ealing and Turnham Green.

imaginarynumber

Thanks Cosmojohnson.


I am still a tad confused by the "through fare".


eg West Ealing to South Ruislip zones 3-5 costs the same as the tube only version, £1.50 off peak.


many of my network rail/tube journeys cost the same as tube only journeys.