How Much is a Corbyn?

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The Balfour Declaration was signed in 1917.

If you are unsure as to how Britain's role in the world has changed in the intervening years between 1917 and now then I would politely suggest it isn't me who requires a history lesson.

The UK lost the ability to project power outside its own borders sometime between the end of the war and the Suez Crisis.

We have had precisely zero influence over the Middle East in most people's living memory.

We could at least join our European neighbours in taking a principled stand against the US to at least show some kind of solidarity with the Palestinians, one of the world's most oppressed people. But that would involve publicly disagreeing with America, something that our current politicians are too spineless to do.

I suspect Corbyn wouldn't be.

what would a 'principled stand' mean ?

Is that one designed solely to show you are good chap or one that seriously looks for a solution ?

MS1950

martinsurrey wrote: »

I'm not going to come back to this one, we'll never see eye to eye on it.

I agree - so this is my last word on the matter.

What you have tried to do by continually disinterring this 11 year old row is to imply that Corbyn is responsible for the first statement issued by Andrew Murray but not it's replacement by the second statement.

However, trade union leader Mick Rix who it seems was the most vociferous in condemning the first statement is now very publicly supporting Corbyn in the Leadership election – as his twitter page graphically shows:

https://twitter.com/rixyiegmb

Similarly the twitter page of Billy Hayes - another union leader reported as condemning Murray's statement at the time – also shows his support for Corbyn's candidature:

https://twitter.com/billyhayes_cwu

While unions that are also reported to have condemned Murray at the time – ASLEF, TGWU (now part of UNITE), UNISON and CWU – have now nominated Corbyn as leader.

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/leadership/detail/jeremy-corbyn

As I've said before, neither of us know what role Corbyn had in the change of policy, however the fact that his leadership bid is now supported by those that condemned Murray's statement at the time suggests that they, unlike you, don't hold Corbyn responsible for the actions of Murray.

martinsurrey

MS1950 wrote: »

I agree - so this is my last word on the matter.

However, trade union leader Mick Rix who it seems was the most vociferous in condemning the first statement is now very publicly supporting Corbyn in the Leadership election – as his twitter page graphically shows:

I agree that they all support him now. He's the strongest ally of the unions going.

but I wish Corbyn had been more like Rix

http://www.labourfriendsofiraq.org.uk/archives/000063.html

" 'If you think I am going to sit back and agree with beheadings, kidnappings, torture and brutality, and out right terrorization of ordinary Iraqi and others, then you can forget it'." as he quit the STWC

You seem to think I am holding him accountable for Murray's comments, which I'm not, I hold him accountable for his reaction to Murray's comments, which was to avoid it, continue to share a platform, and not condemn it, going as far as to table an amendment to a motion to condemn it (removing the condemnation).

you don't consider his lack of a response as an indicator of his character, and I do, and we wont agree.

MS1950

To return to the title of this thread - around £100,000 apparently at least to punters who bet with Paddy Power:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-race-corbyn-win-is-done-deal-predicts-paddy-power-as-it-pays-out-on-bets-10461114.html

Thrugelmir

ruggedtoast wrote: »

We have had precisely zero influence over the Middle East in most people's living memory.

The UK ruled over Palestine until 1948. Spend some time in Jordan and you'll appreciate the resentment still felt. As around 2/3 third's of the population is Palestinian. They still want their homeland back.

cepheus

Paul Mason (a very knowledgeable economist, I'm reading his new book Post Capitalism) explain how Corbyn would use Quantitative easing for infrastructure projects.

https://youtu.be/vKv48n4MzII

see also 35 economists back Corbyn's policies

plenty of economists welcome Corbyn's proposals as opening up fruitful new areas for public discussion on the economy.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ourkingdom/35-economists-back-corbyn%27s-policies-as-%27sensible%27#.VdMSBMUE54I.twitter

in contrast see economists views on Government policy here

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/two-thirds-of-economists-say-coalition-austerity-harmed-the-economy-10149410.html

Thrugelmir

cepheus wrote: »

see also 35 economists back Corbyn's policies

How many hold alternative political views? Far more than 35 one imagines.

Generali

cepheus wrote: »

Paul Mason (a very knowledgeable economist, I'm reading his new book Post Capitalism) explain how Corbyn would use Quantitative easing for infrastructure projects.

https://youtu.be/vKv48n4MzII

see also 35 economists back Corbyn's policies



https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ourkingdom/35-economists-back-corbyn%27s-policies-as-%27sensible%27#.VdMSBMUE54I.twitter

in contrast see economists views on Government policy here

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/two-thirds-of-economists-say-coalition-austerity-harmed-the-economy-10149410.html

Mr Mason is a visiting professor at the University of Wolverhampton. That really isn't that impressive.

CLAPTON

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK ruled over Palestine until 1948. Spend some time in Jordan and you'll appreciate the resentment still felt. As around 2/3 third's of the population is Palestinian. They still want their homeland back.

that's interesting but is it realistic

do you feel equally strongly and sympathetic about

-the Indian hindu wanting their land back from pakistan?
-or the Pakistani muslims wanting their land back from India
-or the Armenians wanting their land back from Turkey
-or the Christians (and non Muslims) who have been ethnically cleansed from the Middle east wanting their land back
-or the Sudetan Germans wanting their land back from Czech
-or the Poles their land back from further east
-or the US Indians wanting their land back


after the WW2 countless millions moved and have made new lives except the Palestinians (one wonders why?): what is so special about them and not the others

MS1950

Generali wrote: »

Mr Mason is a visiting professor at the University of Wolverhampton. That really isn't that impressive.

To be fair - and I try to be - he's not a trained economist of any sort...

Although the University of Wolverhampton describes him as "a leading expert on the global economy. In his inaugural lecture at the University, Paul will present: The disrupted wave: the financial crisis as a 50 year turning point for capitalism?" - which sounds a bit 'Kondratiev' - his own account of his education is as follows:

"A Catholic grammar school, Thornleigh Salesian College in Bolton. I went to Sheffield university to read music, but persuaded them to let me study music and politics. I did my music teacher’s certificate, then spent a further two years on an unfinished PhD on the music of the Second Viennese School";

which is repeated in his wikipedia entry.

https://www.wlv.ac.uk/about-us/our-schools-and-institutes/faculty-of-social-sciences/university-of-wolverhampton-business-school/news-and-events/bbc-newsnights-economics-editor/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/57994c6e-3c0d-11e1-bb39-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2X2WvbJzX

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mason_%28journalist%29

I've no doubt that he's widely read and I like the bloke and find his reports interesting - but he's no more an economist than I am.