How Much is a Corbyn?

martinsurrey

cepheus wrote: »

Why not just include all the various policies and see which party conforms closest to the public's wishes?

https://data.voteforpolicies.org.uk/countries/results#countries/england

but don't despair, the public are probably more interested in personalities than policies, and the right wing dominated media will make sure the rich will win. Good job for you eh?

because the public also want someone who can intact what the say.

"A Ferrari in every driveway" would be a very popular policy on its own, but when the flip side would be a national debt growing so large it would make Greece laugh, people tend to not go for it.

Which is why individual policies aren't all that matters, its the whole manifesto, coupled with the public's belief in the people saying it.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

MS1950 wrote: »

The arch manipulator Mandelson apparently even tried to orchestrate a mass resignation of the other 3 candidates in a desperate 'stop Corbyn' move:

"Lord Mandelson, one of the architects of “new” Labour, privately appealed last week to the Kendall, Cooper and Burnham camps to quit the contest before ballot papers were sent out, according to sources.

One said: “Lord Mandelson and other Blairites were saying – this is a disgrace, let’s get this thing pulled. But it was not going to happen.”

The peer is understood to have believed that the party might suspend the contest if there was only one candidate, but he had to back down when officials said it would mean Mr Corbyn won"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11806498/Lord-Mandelsons-failed-mass-resignation-bid-to-attempt-to-stop-Jeremy-Corbyn-winning-Labour-leadership.html.

I heard that on the radio this morning- astounding if true. I expect there will be a slew of stories along the lines of "Corbyn punched a kitten in the face and then barbequed it on a war grave", "Corbyn's secret plan to sell Prince George to gypsies" and "Corbyn in commie plot to make custard creams red" etc etc.

cepheus

Jeremy Corbyn's appeal is enhanced by the united hostility of the press
Roy Greenslade

Negative newspaper coverage is tending to have the reverse effect, although Tory-supporting titles may well be very happy about that..

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/aug/17/jeremy-corbyns-appeal-is-enhanced-by-the-united-hostility-of-the-press?CMP=twt_gu

martinsurrey

lets not forget some of Corbyn's friends.

it was an "honour and pleasure" to host - Hamas and Hezbollah

Hamas Charter - “Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement… There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad.”

Hezbollah's charter - “The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’”

Seem like a nice bunch...

Stop the war coalition (He is the chair) - “reaffirms its call for an end to the occupation, the return of all British troops in Iraq to this country and recognises once more the legitimacy of the struggle of Iraqis, by whatever means they find necessary, to secure such ends”.

which was seized by al-Qaida as propaganda legitimizing suicide attacks on British troops

the lists go on and on, the man rubs shoulders with some real slim...

cepheus

martinsurrey wrote: »

because the public also want someone who can intact what the say.

"A Ferrari in every driveway" would be a very popular policy on its own, but when the flip side would be a national debt growing so large it would make Greece laugh, people tend to not go for it.

Which is why individual policies aren't all that matters, its the whole manifesto, coupled with the public's belief in the people saying it.

A Manifesto is mainly policy.

It's the Tories who seem to like giving away public assets for less than they are worth.

How have they performed on these 2010 pledges by the 2015 election?

• pay down the bulk of the deficit.
• Consumer Protection Agency to address high levels of personal debt.
• Smaller class sizes.
• Pay off the student loans of maths and science graduates who become teachers.
• Scrap waiting-list targets for health
• New 24/7 urgent care service and weekend access to GPs.
• Stop closures of A&E and maternity wards.
• Instant grounding orders for antisocial youngsters.
• Prison sentences for carrying a knife.
• New border police force.
• Abstinence-based drug rehabilitation orders.
• Human Rights Act to be replaced by British Bill of Rights
• Annual limit on non-EU economic migrants.
• Overseas students at new or unregistered institutions to pay bond on arrival.
• freeze council tax for two years.
• Ban companies from using latest interactive technology to sell to children.
• Set up a new permanent military command for homeland defence and security
• Cut MoD running costs by 25%.
• To make the UK “the world’s first low-carbon economy”, including becoming a world leader in green goods and services.
• Local authorities could pay people to recycle.

martinsurrey

cepheus wrote: »

A Manifesto is mainly policy.

It's the Tories who seem to like giving away public assets for less than they are worth.

How have they performed on these 2010 pledges by the 2015 election?.

• pay down the bulk of the deficit.
• Consumer Protection Agency to address high levels of personal debt.
• Smaller class sizes.
• Pay off the student loans of maths and science graduates who become teachers.
• Scrap waiting-list targets for health
• New 24/7 urgent care service and weekend access to GPs.
• Stop closures of A&E and maternity wards.
• Instant grounding orders for antisocial youngsters.
• Prison sentences for carrying a knife.
• New border police force.
• Abstinence-based drug rehabilitation orders.
• Human Rights Act to be replaced by British Bill of Rights
• Annual limit on non-EU economic migrants.
• Overseas students at new or unregistered institutions to pay bond on arrival.
• freeze council tax for two years.
• Ban companies from using latest interactive technology to sell to children.
• Set up a new permanent military command for homeland defence and security
• Cut MoD running costs by 25%.
• To make the UK “the world’s first low-carbon economy”, including becoming a world leader in green goods and services.
• Local authorities could pay people to recycle.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/14/how-much-of-the-conservatives-2010-election-manifesto-was-implemented

there is a decent write up of how they did (by the Guardian, so not exactly Tory friendly), and lets not forget that it was a coalition, not a Tory government.

for example

"3) Prison sentences for carrying a knife.

Not met – This was the subject of a coalition row and blocked by the Lib Dems. An amendment passed by a backbench Tory introduces a mandatory jail term for those caught carrying a knife on the second offence but it is unclear when this will come into force."

"11) Overseas students at new or unregistered institutions to pay bond on arrival.

Not met – Home secretary Theresa May had a plan to make all immigrants pay bonds but this was blocked by the Lib Dems."

I would say, it wasn't bad going for a coalition government. Which is why people believed them in 2015 (over labour).

MS1950

martinsurrey wrote: »

lets not forget some of Corbyn's friends.

it was an "honour and pleasure" to host - Hamas and Hezbollah

Hamas Charter - “Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement… There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad.”

Hezbollah's charter - “The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’”

Seem like a nice bunch...

Stop the war coalition (He is the chair) - “reaffirms its call for an end to the occupation, the return of all British troops in Iraq to this country and recognises once more the legitimacy of the struggle of Iraqis, by whatever means they find necessary, to secure such ends”.

which was seized by al-Qaida as propaganda legitimizing suicide attacks on British troops

the lists go on and on, the man rubs shoulders with some real slim...

This is going round in circles.......

Corbyn interviewed on Saturday:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/15/jeremy-corbyn-campaign-scotland-corbynmania

“I asked him: did he accept – not necessarily apologise for, but accept – that his hinterland has meant unsavoury bedfellows? “There’s no denying that some people I have had to sit down with, both Israeli and Palestinian and from many other areas, have held personal views which are anathema to me, abhorrent to me. Does that mean we shouldn’t have sat down with them? It certainly doesn’t””.

From 'Hansard' 26 Sep 2014 :

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm140926/debtext/140926-0002.htm

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): …...”The current crisis descends from the war on terror, the ramifications of which have been vast military expenditure by western countries and the growth of jihadist forces in many parts of the world..........

We need to give a moment’s thought to where the problems come from. The growth of the Taliban came from 1979, when the west decided to support the opposition in Afghanistan. The Taliban morphed into al-Qaeda, which then morphed into various other forces in Africa, particularly in Nigeria, and of course into the current group, ISIL........

We are right to talk about ISIL’s appalling human rights record, but we should be careful with whom we walk. The Prime Minister pointed out that there had been a ministerial visit to Saudi Arabia to get it on side in the current conflict. We sell an awful lot of arms to Saudi Arabia, and there is an awful lot of Saudi money in London in property speculation and various other investments. Saudi Arabia routinely beheads people in public every Friday, executing them for sex outside marriage, religious conversion and a whole lot of other things, but we have very little to say about human rights abuses there because of the economic link with Saudi Arabia. If we are to go to war on the basis of abuses of human rights, we should have some degree of consistency in our approach”.

http://www.vocativ.com/underworld/crime/saudi-arabia-execution-beheading/

cepheus

People's Quantitative Easing

The evil Commie. We know QE is only for glorious Bankers who know how to handle money. Oh wait..............

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/08/17/the-political-economy-of-peoples-quantitative-easing/

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Because when you use actual polling data of the general population instead of a self-selecting sample of young, internet users, the results are rather different...

Ordinary people are just as likely to support policy ideas from the extreme right as the far left.

That fact can provide no more comfort for Corbyn supporters who like to point at popular left-wing policies to prove he is electable than it can for Farage supporters who do the same thing about popular right-wing proposals.

I see cepheus is still ignoring this inconvenient fact....

martinsurrey

MS1950 wrote: »

This is going round in circles.......

Corbyn interviewed on Saturday:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/15/jeremy-corbyn-campaign-scotland-corbynmania

“I asked him: did he accept – not necessarily apologise for, but accept – that his hinterland has meant unsavoury bedfellows? “There’s no denying that some people I have had to sit down with, both Israeli and Palestinian and from many other areas, have held personal views which are anathema to me, abhorrent to me. Does that mean we shouldn’t have sat down with them? It certainly doesn’t””.

From 'Hansard' 26 Sep 2014 :

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmhansrd/cm140926/debtext/140926-0002.htm

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): …...”The current crisis descends from the war on terror, the ramifications of which have been vast military expenditure by western countries and the growth of jihadist forces in many parts of the world..........

We need to give a moment’s thought to where the problems come from. The growth of the Taliban came from 1979, when the west decided to support the opposition in Afghanistan. The Taliban morphed into al-Qaeda, which then morphed into various other forces in Africa, particularly in Nigeria, and of course into the current group, ISIL........

We are right to talk about ISIL’s appalling human rights record, but we should be careful with whom we walk. The Prime Minister pointed out that there had been a ministerial visit to Saudi Arabia to get it on side in the current conflict. We sell an awful lot of arms to Saudi Arabia, and there is an awful lot of Saudi money in London in property speculation and various other investments. Saudi Arabia routinely beheads people in public every Friday, executing them for sex outside marriage, religious conversion and a whole lot of other things, but we have very little to say about human rights abuses there because of the economic link with Saudi Arabia. If we are to go to war on the basis of abuses of human rights, we should have some degree of consistency in our approach”.

http://www.vocativ.com/underworld/crime/saudi-arabia-execution-beheading/

you see, its not the fact that he sits down with bad people, I accept that its part of the job, its the glorifying encouragement of it.

If David Cameron told Saudi Arabia that they should do what ever they needed to do, to achieve something, and that included blowing up schools, he would be rightly run out of town. How is Corbyn's encouragement of "what ever means necessary" different?