Do I have to prove I paid PPI if the policy is no longer on the banks records

decafonly4me

Back in the 1990's I worked for a high street bank. It was frowned upon to take out any type of loan/credit card or mortgage without insurance. I was young and a new employee so never questioned this. In 1992 I was granted a mortgage and told that I had to take out income protection. I have found the policy number and the date I cancelled it (1999) but the premium was combined with the mortgage payment in the same direct debit so I cant identify how much i paid each month. The bank (Lloyds) say that they dont have my old mortgage statements (grr neither do I) and policy number is to old and does not come up on their system so even though I have a Lloyds document with the policy number and cancellation date on it, I need to prove that I paid the payments and how much I paid. Does anyone know if this is correct. The fact that they acknowledge the document is genuine, but their system no longer shows the monthly premium or when the policy started, does this mean I cant persue a claim unless I can prove how i paid them??:(

dunstonh

I need to prove that I paid the payments and how much I paid. Does anyone know if this is correct.

Generally, yes. For example-, you would have cancelled within the cancellation rights period and never paid a premium. Or you could have paid for years. Its not possible to say without evidence.

sun73

Land Registry might be able to locate a document which shows when the mortgage started and how much you borrowed, you apply using form OC2.
Do you bank with LLoyds, can you get hold of statements which show the direct debits and provides evidence of payment?
If you can find out how much the mortgage was for each month and the date you repaid it, maybe the bank could calculate how much PPI you paid.

magpiecottage

sun73 wrote: »

Land Registry might be able to locate a document which shows when the mortgage started and how much you borrowed, you apply using form OC2.

Loan amounts are not recorded by the Land Registry, only the existence of a charge (i.e. a mortgage exists but no information about how much).

When the OP took out the loan they did not even record the purchase price.

sun73

That wasn't my experience, as I got the exact mortgage amount (the charge) I borrowed over 20 years ago and account number from a Land Registry search carried out last year.

Land_Registry

If the property is registered and in England or Wales then whilst the monetary/account details will not be shown on the register they may be included in the paperwork submitted when registered.

For example the legal charge (mortgage form) submitted can refer to an account number and/or amount lent at the start and as posted form OC2 would be used to apply for a copy (£7)

Much depends on the lender and the form they used at the time though and sometimes it is the application form used to register the legal charge which refers to the amount lent.

As such we usually recommend that you contact us first with the relevant details 9nc address/title number and ask us to check what details are available. We can then check and if details are available advise how to apply and at what cost

Note - we don't keep a record re mortgage payments or how much is left outstanding for example

magpiecottage

Thank you - that still would shed any light on the existence of PPI, though (even assuming the amount of the loan was given).

-taff

*wouldn't*

decafonly4me

Carrying on from my earlier post re the lost PPI records with the bank....Send a DSAR letter!!!.
I did everything I could to find proof that I did infact pay the Mortgage Protection Insurance. I sent DSAR (data subject access request from Money Saving Experts template letters) letters to the two banks I was banking with then to obtain copies of old bank statements. I also requested a copy of my mortgage deeds in the hope that some evidence would be on there. With no success.
But my recollection was that this MRI (Mortgage repayment insurance) was combined with my monthly mortgage payment so may not show on my old statements. The bank in question told me that had never been the case and that it would have been collected as a seperate payment. But, as I thought, there was no seperate direct debit on my bank statements
However, having sent the DSAR letter to the bank where I held my mortgage they eventually sent me archived copies of my mortgage statements going back until November 1992! And, there it was £21 per month taken with my monthly mortgage payment! I hadn't imagined it! I actually paid it from August 1992 until September 2000. During this time there was a small fluctuation to the premium and they did change the title of the insurance from mortgage protection to income protection and finally to mortgage repayment insurance.
So, needless to say, I have contacted the bank again and asked them to re-open my complaint. Im really frustrated that they wrote and told me that I had never had this insurance with them. Also told me that it would never have been combined with my mortgage payments and told me that I had to prove that I had it. So, send a DSAR request letter if all else fails and then hopefully you too will have the evidence you neded to prove that you did in fact pay insurance. I'm am awaiting their response to this new evidence that I have provided and will update my outcome once its known.:)

dunstonh

also requested a copy of my mortgage deeds in the hope that some evidence would be on there. With no success.

MPPI wouldnt appear on the deeds. In most cases it wouldnt even appear in the mortgage application.

But my recollection was that this MRI (Mortgage repayment insurance) was combined with my monthly mortgage payment so may not show on my old statements. The bank in question told me that had never been the case and that it would have been collected as a seperate payment. But, as I thought, there was no seperate direct debit on my bank statements

No bank has ever done single premium MPPI. Most banks had the MPPI as monthly premium standalone. Only a few building societies did it bulked in with the mortgage payment but it would then appear on the mortgage statements. That method went away many years ago. A method that went away before many of todays bank workers became employed.

m really frustrated that they wrote and told me that I had never had this insurance with them.

They probably couldnt find it. After all it was 23 years ago.

You did the right thing in the DSAR.

decafonly4me

Hi Dunstonh, thank you for your input. Using the DSAR letter I have now obtained mortgage statements from 1992 which show I did infact pay Mortgage payment protection for 8 years! It was collected with my monthly mortgage payment which was made to the bank, but it is broken down on the statements to show the monthly cost of approx £21pm. So, I have made a compliant to the bank and still almost two months later the investment complaints department still cant find any staff who were working for the bank back in 1992 so dont know what sort of policy it was. So, to date it is still in the hands of the complaint team advisor who I contact every 10 days or so only to be told he is still awaiting for replies to emails he has sent to see if anyone can be found to explain what type of policy it was. :mad: Its was accident sickness and redundancy insurance. I'm not sure what to do now as I thought that my compliant letter together with the evidence I did have the policy would be enough to make a decision......... Any sugestions would be gratefully recieved.