Parking Blinking Eye !

Realstokebloke

Hi., newbie here in search of enlightenment ...

My (good lady) wife overstayed a PE car park by 20 mins recently and was issued an £85 fine with an early payment discount of £35 (if paid today).

That said, we want to appeal, so...

1. If we submit the appeal today, does it effectively freeze the process until they accept or reject it please?

i.e. if they reject it, do we still get the chance to pay the reduced rate of £50 upon their response? Or does it still go up to the higher £85 as it is after the original 21 days (today is actually 20 days?)

2. If we pay it today, does that not let us appeal subsequently?

3. Is there any right of appeal anyway if we provide proof of purchases from the shops at the retail park? Or is it the case, that even with such evidence / receipts, there is no grounds for appeal (including a protracted choice of material at a fabric shop)?

4. If / when we appeal, do we go 'nicey-nicey & very sorry', or do we use the more strident language as suggested by the parking-prankster guys?

i.e.

"Should you fail to uphold my appeal then I will also appeal to POPLA on the following grounds. You will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice and does not form a contract between motorist and yourself
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the authority to offer contracts to park
4) You are using ANPR data for a purpose not registered with the ICO"

or will that just annoy them?

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks.

RSB

Herzlos

They'll reject almost any appeal, whatever is in it, though they do have a secret spending limit of around £30, so if you can prove that they may cancel it.

If they don't, they'll give you a POPLA code and you can appeal to POPLA and get it cancelled there. Or you can demand the land owner cancels it.

You'll lose the ability to pay the lower rate, but if you appeal properly you'll not have to pay anything. Look at it as a bribe to not argue with them. If they thought it was actually enforceable they wouldn't offer it.

Don't worry about annoying them, you're dealing with scammers and not a reasonable company. The appeal looks good as is, though you can add in a point about the money spent.

Do not name the driver though, do everything in 3rd person. "The driver spent £xyz in the retail park, see the attached (redacted) copies of the reciepts"

Guys_Dad

If you pay, you can not appeal afterwards - see POPLA web site.

Half_way

My (good lady) wife overstayed a PE car park

Was it realy a parking eye car park, or was it someone else s car park that parking eye are infesting?

was issued an £85 fine with an early payment discount of £35 (if paid today).

its not a fine, and the discount is nothing but bluff and bulshit. The real cost that you / your wife should pay is ZERO

Who's car park was it?

Realstokebloke

Thanks Herzlos.

I thought they "froze" the fine at the lower amount if they received an appeal.

MSE's own blurb says:

" Posted tickets

The ticket should include a formal appeal form. If you appeal within 14 days, or 21 if caught by CCTV, you'll usually get the opportunity to pay the reduced rate if your appeal is rejected. "

I guess "usually" applies with PE then?

U/stand we'll get a POPLA appeal but, will they (POPLA) cancel it just like that? (I note you see the appeal looks good as is.) Mrs RSB definitely bought a load of stuff but paid cash, so we have no "evidence" (so should I cite a figure in excess of £30 anyway?) . Or will lack of receipts kybosh any appeal anyway - either to them or to POPLA?

Noted about not naming the driver but on their appeal / payment forms do i say i am the driver or the registered keeper (I am the keeper but not the driver). So I guess i reply as the keeper?

Realstokebloke

Thanks Half_way,

How do we know whose car park it is?

It is a Retail Park with Aldi, Poundstretcher, Blockbuster & a haberdashery shop. I can not see on their letter who owns the land. Would we have to go back and recce it & will it usually say?

Does that matter indeed? (your point about who owns the land)?

Realstokebloke

So (depending on whether they "freeze" the fine - allowing us to pay the reduced rate while the appeal is considered - see other reply to Herzlos) we should appeal anyway?

Or, are we just wasting ano £35 by passing up the chance to pay now as they will reject it?

I guess it is whether POPLA will uphold an appeal and on what grounds. Not sure we have a robust case tbh.

Herzlos

Forum guided POPLA appeals have, as far as I can tell, a 100% success rate. You'll need to get the full text from elsewhere, once PE reject your appeal.

You've got a concrete case; if PE followed the BPA code of conduct you wouldn't have been given an invoice in the first place. The signage will be insufficient (we haven't seen a good set of signage yet), there's no loss (free car park?), it's unlikely they actually have the authority to issue or enforce tickets, nor will they have appropriate planning permission for the ANPR. They'd also have a decent appeals service which would have identified you were a genuine customer and cancelled it.

So fear not, you won't have to pay them a penny. Ignore the reduced early payment fee.

Do you not have any of the receipts? I guess you can give them a breakdown of what you bought, with a photo or something, but don't dwell on that for too long. If you can't prove it, then it doesn't matter as you'll be able to get rid of it at POPLA.

Fruitcake

Don't overthink this. Don't think about the reduced amount being frozen. You owe these scammers nothing.


Appeal using the template in the NEWBIES thread. If Parking Lie reject it, appeal to PoPLA and win the 100% MSE discount.


... and it is still NOT a fine. It is a speculative invoice.

Realstokebloke

Later that same year, following the merciless rejection by Parking Eye...

OK.

Can I ask for a steer on some POPLA appeal help now on this please? As expected, I got rejected by appealing to PE. I didn't shop myself or Mrs RSB in my mitigation appeal but still got what, I suspect, is their standard rejection.

Spurred on by many a poster on here telling me I would win hands down on a POPLA, I now need to do it THIS WEEKEND as I am on a reply from them dated 01 Sept (so get 28 days, right?).

So, i thought ... I'll just find & refer to the 'POPLA template' ... but actually, it's all got (it seems to me) a tad confusing.

Is there actually still a template on here that i can use as a basis or am I just blind? I have seen ano thread debating if the newbie thread is still fit for purpose etc in the light of 'new POPLA' etc, but didn't seem to conclude one way or ano.

So do I trawl through and throw every snippet / excerpt from previous appeals, or has 'newPOPLA' and / or Beavis (whatever that actually is) changed all that.

Tentatively, in advance, thanks ...

Umkomaas

There is no standard POPLA template, but your appeal needs to cover the following:

1. No keeper liability (but you need to check the NtK for correct dates and all requirements of PoFA have been included) - see here:
http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

2. Signage
3. No Contract with landowner to pursue charges in their own name at court
4. No proprietary interest in the land
5. Unlawful Penalty Charge
6. ANPR Accuracy (if appropriate)
7. No genuine pre-estimate of loss (GPEOL)

Read very carefully post # 3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky - it contains information important to your appeal.

There are plenty of examples of winning POPLA appeals across the forum; here are a couple of links for you to follow and research:

How to win at POPLA:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62180281&postcount=15

Some of the appeals linked here are now becoming a little dated, so be careful to use one of the more recent ones as your guide to framing your own.

Please don't do a 'copy and dump' of the first thing that looks 'legal' enough, then expect regulars to pick it apart and amend it all for you. We won't do that, so you need to understand what you're copying, you need to proof read it and make sure any references you make (Beavis in particular) are up to date, and everything relates broadly to your parking event.

POPLA Decisions

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337

Read from the most recent backwards to get a feel for the appeal points on which POPLA Assessors are currently upholding appeals.

However (and importantly) things are changing on the POPLA front, with the service having been taken over by The Ombudsman Service Ltd. Please read the following links to understand the process you will need to follow over the next few weeks:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/popla-changeover-starts-tomorrow.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/new-popla-process.html

So the 'new' POPLA is up and running, so you need to get your appeal in by the deadline you've been given. We don't know how they will assess and adjudicate appeals, so we won't be able to give anything like the conditional assurance we have previously until we see several outputs from the new service.