plastic vs wood sash double glazing

carrot4

Recently moved into an old Victorian house with 46 windows. The house needs a major renovation which includes new windows. We have looked at double glazed wooden and upvc sash replacements. Totally confused now. After much discussion we thought the wooded windows would be the way to go - more in keeping, slimmer profile etc etc. However the sample we have received from a recommended company, has a similar profile to upvc replacements we have looked at. Also, the wooden ones are pre-painted which effectively gives them the same look as upvc (ie plasticky). In fact the upvc windows with a wood grain effect look more like wooded windows than the wood ones.....
We did not want to ruin the look of the house but need to replace the windows - your thoughts would be most appreciated

martinsurrey

46 windows as in 46 double glazing units...!?!

wow...

Given the price difference between UPVC and wood, and the fact that you don't know which one your going for, I guess you haven't got a fixed budget for the renovation (of a 46 window Victorian house!), I would go for UPVC, it'll keep the sobbing sound in the house better, so as to not disturb your neighbours, and the blood will come out easier when you and the other half try and kill each other.

leveller2911

The first thing to consider is whether or not the house is in a conservation area or if the house is Listed, if it is then you may be limited to timber windows only as Upvc are not allowed in many areas. Some Authorities won't even allow double glazing in a conservation area.

I would recommend visiting a couple of small local Joinery workshops as they will be able to replicate the mouldings that are on the existing windows.The volume producers are very limited with mouldings,profiles etc that they will make whereas a small Joinery will be able to make any mouldings as they will have cutters made to order.When you make windows that are going to be spray painted you have to "round" off all the sharp edges with a 5mm radius otherwise the paint won't stick to a sharp edge but the down side is the windows look very modern .

They can either be spay painted but as you say they can look very "plasticy" but it depends on the species of timber used.Some timbers such as Sapele hardwood will show the grain through the paint and look more authentic or you can have them decorated by a good decorator.I would strongly recommend you don't paint them yourself.It may save money short term but cost more long term. Sash windows need decorating in a specific way so get advice from a decent decorator who has experience of sash windows.

Replacing 46 windows will be expensive to replace in timber but you could consider replacing them in batches because making a single window is very expensive , making a batch of 10 will make a considerable saving.

I make sash windows and would say if they are made of a decent hardwood and decorated to a good standard then they wil last a lifetime.The double glazed units will need replacing as they generally last about 20 years (give or take a few years) but the frames will be good for 60-80 yrs easily.

Owain_Moneysaver

If some of your windows are repairable, it will be possible to have new wood ones made to match the existing. This may be cheaper than all-new windows.

all my inclinations say wood, regardless of first cost. PVC windows have a very limited lifespan in comparison to well maintained good quality windows.

carrot4

Yep, fortunately the neighbours have double glazing so hopefully the sobbing will be muted......

Thanks for your replies. The house is neither listed or in a conservation area.

Most of the issue is that the wooden windows appear to have the same profile ie thickness as upvc. Although there are 46 windows quite a few are small. We were hoping to avoid a "chunky" look on the smaller windows so thought wood would be better in this respect but this appears not to be the case.

I understand the arguements regarding longevity for well kept wooden sash windows but budget is a major consideration for us.

Are there legal requirements regarding profiles for double glazing?

brightontraveller

carrot4 wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]Are there legal requirements regarding profiles for double glazing?

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Its not listed/conservation etc you can have what you want? I would get dozens of quotes and play them off against each other once you’ve got them. Also get a PAYG sim card and set up a through away email as you’ll be bombarded for years once you start getting quotes... [/FONT] I'd go pvc not timber? There is so much faffing around with timber and the longevity is questionable despite what they tell you ?

Zoology_Dragon

I vote timber and do them in batches. We used these http://www.fmcproducts.co.uk/ and our windows are gorgeous, not at all chunky.

leveller2911

brightontraveller wrote: »

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[/FONT]I'd go pvc not timber? There is so much faffing around with timber and the longevity is questionable despite what they tell you ?

As you say there is "faffing" around with timber windows but with the modern microporus finishes if they are decorated well they should last between 5-7yrs between paint cycles.

Regarding their "questionable longevity" it depends on the timbers used and how well they are maintained. Joinery Grade redwood pine won't last 20yrs without vacuum preservative treatment but the problem is companies say their redwood windows are treated but all they do is immerse the windows in presevative which doesn't penetrate fully so they will still rot and its very unstable . Redwood pines are used for 2 reasons ,1 its cheap and 2 its easy to machine and doesn't blunt cutters. TRADA rate Redwood pine as "slightly durable". The only softwood that is moderately durable is Douglas fir but its more expensive , its on a par with Sapele and these windows will last a lifetime if they are looked after.


Even better is Iroko (tendancy to twist/warp) and the best is European oak and again they will last a lifetime and some. I've repaired Oak windows that date back to the 17th Century and you won't get Upvc lasting 50yrs let alone 400 years.

Zoology_Dragon

Regarding longevity, our windows are Accoya and have a 50/60 year (can't remember exactly) guarantee. I doubt uPVC would be looking very good after half a century.

leveller2911

S

Zoology_Dragon wrote: »

Regarding longevity, our windows are Accoya and have a 50/60 year (can't remember exactly) guarantee. I doubt uPVC would be looking very good after half a century.

The warranty with Accoya is a decent warranty but it's the timber that has a long warranty against rotting and the windows are likely to have a 10yr warranty. The downside with Accoya is they claim its environmentally friendly because it's made from cheap ,fast growing Radiata pine but they don't tell you it's harvested in New Zealand, sent to Holland where it's treated and then shipped all over the world.not really good for the planet and the other thing is it's as expensive as European oak because only 2 companies have a licence to sell it. You can only use certain glues and metals with Accoya due to the Acetic acid in the timber which preserves it.

It does have a place in the market but the price needs to come down to make it viable for the mass market .They also do "Tricoya" which is an exterior MDF .Im using it at the moment for some door panels and it's £120 +vat for an 8'x4' sheet whereas standard MDF is around £15-00 a sheet...

teneighty

Interesting comments about the accoya Leveller.

I looked into using it on a project a while back but I just couldn't find any independent information so I went with the traditional alternative.

I too would usually favour timber windows but agree that some can look chunky and with the spray paint finish do look very much like plastic. However if you talk to different joinery companies you can find ones that offer narrower profiles and still very good quality and not too bad on price.

Look at flush casements rather than the stormproof ones, that will bring the frame sizes down and give a much more traditional look (assuming they are not sliding sashes of course).