Scotland and Greece

IveSeenTheLight

antrobus wrote: »

'Increasing the revenue received' is an interesting euphemism for 'putting up taxes', but I think you'll find that increasing taxes tends to reduce people's standard of living, since they don't have the money anymore, the government does.

No necessarily, there are a number of ways that revenue could be increased without 'putting up taxes'

Increasing volume can increase revenue without increasing tax.

Very simplistically for example, a reduction in stamp duty, could be offset by the increase in sales volume. Would that constitute a reduction in living standards? I think not

Business rates could be reduced, potentially increasing the quantity of businesses and as such increase job opportunities and earnings and taxes paid.

I know this is very simplistic and not a simple magic want, but it's not as simple either that you portray that its simple case of increasing taxes and cutting expenditure to tackle the deficit

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

you must feel an enormous affinity for the Tories

I thought and said on here that Cameron made a great speech to his first cabinet meeting about how as a sole government, they must deliver their manifesto.

I also said I hope they do deliver what they said.

We shall see though.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Your so fixated in the here and now and do not appear to be reflective of how we can adapt and change to attack the economy from a different perspective

If that is so achievable, why has Greece not managed to do it?

If you'd told any Greek in 2007 where their country would be 7 years later, they'd have laughed at you.

The ordinary greek citizen would have found it completely unbelievable that in a few short years they would face crippling austerity, 26% unemployment, 50% youth unemployment, hospitals running out of medicine, pensioners rummaging through bins for food, riots on the streets, and be subject to the biggest IMF and Eurozone bail out in history.

They were full of the same complacency, overconfidence and denial that Scot Nats suffer from today.

And their starting position, financially, was better than that which would be faced by an iScotland today.

So I'll ask again, if your lofty rhetoric about rebalancing the economy while not enduring austerity is so achievable, why have the Greeks been unable to do it?

zappster

Hamish McTavish ?

More like Uncle Tom.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

zappster wrote: »

Hamish McTavish ?

More like Uncle Tom.

I live in eternal hope that one day, some of you may climb above the very bottom levels of discourse, and actually make a reasoned and researched attempt to refute the central points of your opponents arguments.

Of course, if you could do that, you may not have lost the referendum.... :whistle:

Mistermeaner

Istl - recognises the need for change in Scotland. Bravo.

What's the plan then? Go independent and see what happens? If it was me I'd get my house in order first.

Thrugelmir

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Very simplistically for example, a reduction in stamp duty, could be offset by the increase in sales volume. Would that constitute a reduction in living standards? I think not

Reminds me of the saying. Turnover is vanity, Profit is sanity but cash is king. The obsession with property is probably one of the major issues at the moment. Selling the family silver continues. As every week seems that another quoted UK company is bought out or a target from overseas.

zagubov

zaax wrote: »

Best they go and good luck. The EC will provide a fence along the border and a building for the full bore (3rd country) passport controls, because they won't get into the EC because of the Spanish Basque problems. Apparently Sheltand will stay in the UK as they don't like the Scots

Oh those stupid racist Shelts!:mad:

zappster wrote: »

Hamish McTavish ?

More like Uncle Tom.

Give the guy a break. Unionists are seeing political numbers relentlessly and unendingly growing in the SNPs favour when their economic figures should be trumping them and showing that the economy trumps society and democracy.

Like that's going to happen.

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

Oh those stupid racist Shelts!:mad:



Give the guy a break. Unionists are seeing political numbers relentlessly and unendingly growing in the SNPs favour when their economic figures should be trumping them and showing that the economy trumps society and democracy.

Like that's going to happen.

Feel free to scoff: free country and all that but HAMISH's central point is irrefutable really. A fiscally independent Scotland would be bankrupt or facing slashing public services.

The economy would have to grow at China-style rates and from current income levels that simply isn't going to happen.

antrobus

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

No necessarily, there are a number of ways that revenue could be increased without 'putting up taxes'

Increasing volume can increase revenue without increasing tax....

There are indeed Laffer Curve arguments to be made about taxation levels.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

...I know this is very simplistic and not a simple magic want, but it's not as simple either that you portray that its simple case of increasing taxes and cutting expenditure to tackle the deficit

Yes it is "very simplistic". If you have a deficit that is too big, you have to deal with it. Relying on some warmed up version of Reaganomics to hopefully dig you out of the hole at some point in the future might work, but there is also a very good chance that the debt will overwhelm you before you even have a chance to find out.