Smart meters - what is the catch?

System

sacsquacco wrote: »

The "little gadget ", the IHD , is definitely running at the expense of the occupier. I was quoted , by my meter fitter, a cost of 60p a year .Smart electric meter has a sensor guarding the lower cover, which has access to the cables entering the meter, and will send an error code to the server if its breached.Its the normal bypassing method used by the vast majority of energy thieves. Of course there are other ways, but thats the easy way. It must work because in the 8 years I ve seen electric smart meters around I have nt found one bypassed.I ve been sent out many times to visit properties, domestic and business, to check a "non communicating smart meter " to know that these sensors do work. These checks are probably faulty sims or wi fi failing to connect.
I have smart meters, and I ve not noticed any extra payments at all on my bills.As far as I know they are free, and so they should be as the suppliers benefit the most.
No, I m not posting any links backing up any "claims " about smart meters being harder to bypass. The manufactures state this. the gas meters have the same sensors. The ability for suppliers to switch the non payers and huge debtors directly to prepay mode from free credit is much needed. I can t imagine anyone but energy thieves who would nt welcome this. No one likes a thief. Energy theft is rife now and getting worse.
Last week I read about some MPs moaning about TV licence thieves getting a criminal record for the theft of £145 a year citing the energy industries record of none prosecutions and saying they should follow their more enlightened attitude. When someone steals up to 2k a year, wrecks the meters costing £300 quid and gets off scott free, time and time again its not something which should applauded, in my view.

The "little gadget ", the IHD , is definitely running at the expense of the occupier. I was quoted , by my meter fitter, a cost of 60p a year

60p for the LCD display alone, plus what is the cost of running the meter itself ? Why have I had to ask this repeatedly ?

.Smart electric meter has a sensor guarding the lower cover, which has access to the cables entering the meter, and will send an error code to the server if its breached.Its the normal bypassing method used by the vast majority of energy thieves. Of course there are other ways, but thats the easy way. It must work because in the 8 years I ve seen electric smart meters around I have nt found one bypassed.I ve been sent out many times to visit properties, domestic and business, to check a "non communicating smart meter " to know that these sensors do work. These checks are probably faulty sims or wi fi failing to connect.

Why would that matter to the thief ? If the sensor alerts the supplier and the supplier comes out they still have no power to enter a premises if the meter is interal, they need to apply for a warrant and that warrant can only be applied on health and safety grounds, which can be easily trumped by the occupier getting a gas safe certificate. Often, suppliers will break and enter into private premises with phoney warrants and poorly trained 'locksmiths', which leaves them wide open to private prosecution. See youtube for examples.

I have smart meters, and I ve not noticed any extra payments at all on my bills.As far as I know they are free, and so they should be as the suppliers benefit the most.

Well they aren't are they, we've just extablished that. There is a 60pence charge for the LCD alone, what is the cost to the occupier of having the meter itself ?

No, I m not posting any links backing up any "claims " about smart meters being harder to bypass. The manufactures state this. the gas meters have the same sensors. The ability for suppliers to switch the non payers and huge debtors directly to prepay mode from free credit is much needed. I can t imagine anyone but energy thieves who would nt welcome this. No one likes a thief. Energy theft is rife now and getting worse.

If you have no evidence to support your claims it's just your opinion. I'm looking to be convinced these smart meters are in the interests of home owners, I need evidence to be convinced.

Last week I read about some MPs moaning about TV licence thieves getting a criminal record for the theft of £145 a year citing the energy industries record of none prosecutions and saying they should follow their more enlightened attitude. When someone steals up to 2k a year, wrecks the meters costing £300 quid and gets off scott free, time and time again its not something which should applauded, in my view.

Stay on point

[Deleted User]

60p a year , thats the cost, the meter itself costs exactly the same to run as the meter in your house... zero .Have you complained about that to your supplier ? all meters are powered from an un metered supply. I ve never heard of warrants being "trumped " on health and safety grounds.Utilities are using them all day and every day to enter premises to fit prepayment meters, not on health and safety grounds but purely for non payment . Occupiers are billed for the cost along with the locksmiths costs.

System

Notwithstanding genuine concerns expressed about EM radiation and 60p on the bill, we should perhaps be more concerned about ongoing smart metering roll-out delays and increasing costs which are now estimated to be more than £12Bn, and rising. Remember the majority of the 1M smart meters already deployed are going to have to be replaced. The following link gives a summary of where the roll-out now stands. It makes for pretty sobering reading:

http://www.addleshawgoddard.com/view.asp?content_id=8685&parent_id=8311

Quote: time is running out on the government’s plan to install smart meters in each of the UK’s 30m homes and businesses by 2020 [as] a series of technical and other issues have resulted in delays. The programme runs the risk of falling far short of expectations. At worst, it could prove to be a costly failure. Unquote

GingerBob_3

Hengus wrote: »

Notwithstanding genuine concerns expressed about EM radiation and 60p on the bill, we should perhaps be more concerned about ongoing smart metering roll-out delays and increasing costs which are now estimated to be more than £12Bn, and rising. Remember the majority of the 1M smart meters already deployed are going to have to be replaced. The following link gives a summary of where the roll-out now stands. It makes for pretty sobering reading:

http://www.addleshawgoddard.com/view.asp?content_id=8685&parent_id=8311

Quote: time is running out on the government’s plan to install smart meters in each of the UK’s 30m homes and businesses by 2020 [as] a series of technical and other issues have resulted in delays. The programme runs the risk of falling far short of expectations. At worst, it could prove to be a costly failure. Unquote

Excellent news!


The only downside is that the tax-payer has to foot the bill.

[Deleted User]

I agree Hengus, the cost is enormous.Mainly because its left to each supplier to arrange the contracts to get the meters installed.We at G4S are fitting them, all done in a haphazard fashion driving from town to town fitting at the most 5 a day on a good day. The meters themselves are not that expensive, approx £125 each, less than a smart water meter, its just the way they are fitted.. 2020 is a pipe dream at the rate they are going. When the electric prepay meters which used cards were changed to key meters they were all done in a short time.Cards were withdrawn on a given date and they were virtually all done in a couple of years

victor2

Gold_Anaconda wrote: »

60p for the LCD display alone, plus what is the cost of running the meter itself ? Why have I had to ask this repeatedly ?

Because it's already been answered in this thread?

Gold_Anaconda wrote: »

Stay on point

Read the thread.
Are you chairing this "meeting" now?

[Deleted User]

walkon wrote: »

EMF is seriously bad for your health and smart meters do this by emitting EMF pulses. It does affect our bodies, just because you can't see it. You can't see radiation but radiation still kills people and causes cancer.

Doesn't it ever occur to you to wonder why the people who spend their careers working with radio aren't all dropping like flies with cancer or whatever else you think they're susceptible to?

System

sacsquacco wrote: »

60p a year , thats the cost, the meter itself costs exactly the same to run as the meter in your house... zero .Have you complained about that to your supplier ? all meters are powered from an un metered supply. I ve never heard of warrants being "trumped " on health and safety grounds.Utilities are using them all day and every day to enter premises to fit prepayment meters, not on health and safety grounds but purely for non payment . Occupiers are billed for the cost along with the locksmiths costs.

Not what was stated earlier :

victor2 wrote: »

According to Which?:

They presumably use a very small amount of power, and if the electric meter gets what power it needs before it is metered into the house, then the running cost to the customer will be zero.
Of course, if you use the In Home Display, that will use a small amount of metered electricity, to the tune of less than £1 a year I read somewhere.

In the event the meter does not get the power it needs before it enters the house, what is the cost to the home owner.

Third time I've had to ask the same question

System

Hengus wrote: »

Notwithstanding genuine concerns expressed about EM radiation and 60p on the bill, we should perhaps be more concerned about ongoing smart metering roll-out delays and increasing costs which are now estimated to be more than £12Bn, and rising. Remember the majority of the 1M smart meters already deployed are going to have to be replaced. The following link gives a summary of where the roll-out now stands. It makes for pretty sobering reading:

http://www.addleshawgoddard.com/view.asp?content_id=8685&parent_id=8311

Quote: time is running out on the government’s plan to install smart meters in each of the UK’s 30m homes and businesses by 2020 [as] a series of technical and other issues have resulted in delays. The programme runs the risk of falling far short of expectations. At worst, it could prove to be a costly failure. Unquote

I'd be interested to know what that 12 billion pounds could have funded had it been used to design and build state of the art reneweable energy plants. Statistics welcome.

I'd also be interested to know how much energy 'they' predict to save from the implementation of these smart meters in relation to the energy that would have been generated from spending just that 12 billion alone on new power plants. Statistics welcome

System

Gold_Anaconda wrote: »

I'd also be interested to know how much energy 'they' predict to save from the implementation of these smart meters in relation to the energy that would have been generated from spending just that 12 billion alone on new power plants. Statistics welcome

I am tempted to say 'do your own research' as it is there for all to see on the DECC website:

Quote after taking account of the costs, smart meters will have a positive net impact
on consumers’ bills. Looking at the combination of all costs and savings from
smart metering, energy bills will be reduced by an estimated £26 per year by
2020, with the reduction rising to £43 per year by 2030 for the average dual
fuel domestic consumer, in comparison to a situation without smart meters.

1.11.This national infrastructure programme is expected to deliver £17.1 billion of
benefits at a cost of £10.9 billion1

. That’s over £6 billion of net benefits: a very positive business case for Great Britain.

The above was as of December 2014; sadly, most informed estimates now put the installation costs at £12.2Bn.

The savings come from 'forcing' customers to reduce both their overall energy usage and peak generation demands through time of use tariffs and/or peak demand tariffs.* If you reduce the latter, then it reduces the need for peak generating capacity. Spending £12.2Bn on renewables might sound like a grand idea; however, it would just add costs to people's energy bills.

Out-of-interest, in California, Electric Vehicle owners are now being PAID not to charge their vehicles during times of peak electricity demand.