Posthumous care fee funding assessment

DDYork

Looking for some advice as we've just recently been told that a grandfather we're estranged from has passed away. We're the only living relations, and as far as we're aware he doesn't have a will (nothing in his property or nursing home).

Because of this we're aware we'll have to apply for letter of administration, however due to not knowing the current financial status of the estate (and not wanting to administer an insolvent estate) we've made some initial inquires with the local adult social services as to his care bill.

It appears that in 2010 he had a fire in his house (which didn't have any form of building insurance) leaving it derelict and uninhabitable. Social services stepped in and rehomed him, firstly in a warden flat and then in a care home in 2011. The care home have told us that he was contributing approximately £650-700/month towards his care costs.

Social services have told us that a financial assessment seems to have been completed in 2011, but they don't seem to have previously been aware of the property until we asked why it had been disregarded for care home fees.

There is no charging order on the property (although it appears there is a charging order from Halifax relating to a mortgage!), and we're reluctant to delve any further into the estates finances (or even arrange the funeral/pay for the funeral out of our own funds) in case we become liable for any debts due to intermeddling.

We've asked social services to confirm if they believe the estate owes them a debt, or if they consider his care costs settled; however due to this "new" information relating to the property they have said they need to conduct a new funding assessment.

Does anyone know what the rules/regulations are around posthumous funding assessments, or what legal grounds they can be conducted on? The property hasn't been transferred to anyone else, and we're pretty sure he didn't try and hide it (he was rehomed from their in the first place!). It also appears that the original funding assessment was conducted by a social worker (we were told that yesterday by the social services finance team), and possibly not completed by my grandfather.

Personally it all seems like social services failed to accurately assess him initially, or pass key information between them which is now causing us a great deal of pain! Any help or comments would be appreciated

TBagpuss

I think they an review the assessment if new information comes to light. And assuming that your grandfather had mental capacity at the time the original assessment was carried out, I think it would have been based on information he provided, and that he would have been asked to confirm that the details being used were correct. So I suspect that they will be clear to carry out the assessment and to recover money from mthe estate if they do asses that he should have been paying.

PasturesNew

Fees at a (guessed) £2k/month, for five years since 2010, would be a total care home bill of about £100k.

He's already been paying £30k of that.

Just on this, there'd be a potential shortfall of £70k

Next, you need to consider the mortgage size and the potential house value. You could do the valuation "on the sly", so to speak, by asking local agents how much such a house 'might be' worth.

If mortgage were, say, £50k ...and the house as derelict/a plot is worth £300k, then it's worthwhile sorting it out.

If it's a mid terrace in The Valleys, worth £20k, then run.

It'd be nice to get his estate tidied up by a family member, just out of respect for his memory.

Keep_pedalling

If you handle this properly there is no way you can be liable for any dept on the estate, and on the up side you may receive a nice little inheritance should it tun out the assets are worth more than the debts. If it was me I would take the responsibility on, there is no one else to do this for him.

If you can afford I would also pay for a simple funeral,

G6JNS

DDYork wrote: »

Looking for some advice as we've just recently been told that a grandfather we're estranged from has passed away. We're the only living relations, and as far as we're aware he doesn't have a will (nothing in his property or nursing home).

Because of this we're aware we'll have to apply for letter of administration, however due to not knowing the current financial status of the estate (and not wanting to administer an insolvent estate) we've made some initial inquires with the local adult social services as to his care bill.

It appears that in 2010 he had a fire in his house (which didn't have any form of building insurance) leaving it derelict and uninhabitable. Social services stepped in and rehomed him, firstly in a warden flat and then in a care home in 2011. The care home have told us that he was contributing approximately £650-700/month towards his care costs.

Social services have told us that a financial assessment seems to have been completed in 2011, but they don't seem to have previously been aware of the property until we asked why it had been disregarded for care home fees.

There is no charging order on the property (although it appears there is a charging order from Halifax relating to a mortgage!), and we're reluctant to delve any further into the estates finances (or even arrange the funeral/pay for the funeral out of our own funds) in case we become liable for any debts due to intermeddling.

We've asked social services to confirm if they believe the estate owes them a debt, or if they consider his care costs settled; however due to this "new" information relating to the property they have said they need to conduct a new funding assessment.

Does anyone know what the rules/regulations are around posthumous funding assessments, or what legal grounds they can be conducted on? The property hasn't been transferred to anyone else, and we're pretty sure he didn't try and hide it (he was rehomed from their in the first place!). It also appears that the original funding assessment was conducted by a social worker (we were told that yesterday by the social services finance team), and possibly not completed by my grandfather.

Personally it all seems like social services failed to accurately assess him initially, or pass key information between them which is now causing us a great deal of pain! Any help or comments would be appreciated

I strongly suggest that you seek advice from the local CAB or a solicitor. There are all sorts of issues and you do need to beware being saddkle3d with debts by intermeddling. Ignore the advice by Keep pedalling that is just wrong.

tomtontom

Given that you have been estranged from him for some years, why are you getting involved now?

Keep_pedalling

G6JNS wrote: »

I strongly suggest that you seek advice from the local CAB or a solicitor. There are all sorts of issues and you do need to beware being saddkle3d with debts by intermeddling. Ignore the advice by Keep pedalling that is just wrong.

Why exactly is that wrong? The OP does not know whether the estate is insolvent or not, and even if it is, handled correctly (which I agree may need professional advice) will not lumber them with estate debts. In this situation I would be perfectly happy to take on wrapping up the estate and if that means corresponding with creditors so be it, it is not exactly rocket science.

DDYork

Thanks all for your advice. Social services have been reasonably helpful today but are just perplexed as us as to why the house doesn't appear to have been considered given that he was paying council tax, was rehomed by them due to the fire and they carried out the financial assessment including assessing his incoming/outgoings via his only bank account. They're trying to access further historical records and it appears their current records are incomplete!

We're already in contact with solicitors that will act for us should it be required

tomtontom wrote: »

Given that you have been estranged from him for some years, why are you getting involved now?

Just to be clear we were only estranged from our Grandfather as he was an alcoholic who refused any help from any family. Unfortunately he was never a pleasant person and pushed all away in later life.

We're involved as it appears their may be some residual left in the estate even after any care home fees. While we were estranged from our Grandmother, we were all very close to our Grandmother who sadly passed away several years ago after battling Dementia for many years. As she was the main bread winner and worked every hour running her own business we don't really see the estate/property as his, but her's. It's been a distressing few years to see how poorly he'd looked after their property, culminating in a fire wrecking the property the month after he'd let the building insurance lapse.

Let's be very clear - we're only involved while it is worth our time/effort and we stand a chance of being able to inherit the property to restore it to its former glory. Ultimately though whoever was the administrator would still end up passing any remaining assets to us as we are the only beneficiaries under the rules of intestacy. It just seems to make more sense for us to do it if there is the chance of a reward!

G6JNS

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

Why exactly is that wrong? The OP does not know whether the estate is insolvent or not, and even if it is, handled correctly (which I agree may need professional advice) will not lumber them with estate debts. In this situation I would be perfectly happy to take on wrapping up the estate and if that means corresponding with creditors so be it, it is not exactly rocket science.

The reason your advice was that the OP clearly needs professional advice and should proceed with caution. You just suggested going ahead without any caveat. We don't now all the circumstances so there could easily be hidden liabilities. Therefore your advice was simply wrong.

DandelionPatrol

Do remember that the funeral is the first charge on the estate - so even if the estate is insolvent, there are assets which can pay for the funeral.

silvercar

Let's be very clear - we're only involved while it is worth our time/effort and we stand a chance of being able to inherit the property to restore it to its former glory. Ultimately though whoever was the administrator would still end up passing any remaining assets to us as we are the only beneficiaries under the rules of intestacy. It just seems to make more sense for us to do it if there is the chance of a reward!

Honest to express your motives so clearly.