Potential Insolvent Estate - Fear Intermeddling

STAX4488

My Dad passed away last week. I have had his accounts frozen as I was advised to do this ASAP, the helpful gentleman in the bank froze his accounts, and with his current account overdrawn transferred the savings (£700 only) to my account (I am a customer of the same bank), writing in a letter as part of the internal bereavement case that this is going towards the funeral cost and the overdraft is to be written off (from reading threads here I doubt I should expect the same grace from other creditors...). The same gentleman advised that I write to the creditors to inform them of the death, and that there is no money beyond the funeral to pay his debts. There is no will to my knowledge, I have no letter of administration.

Having done some more reading I am worried I have inadvertently 'intermeddled' in the estate, I have found letters for unsecured debts that total over (to what can be accounted for only in post) £23k, I am weary there are likely more which I am unaware (no assets or secured debts). There is a pension from a job left in 1998 for which I have little details, but it is highly likely that the estate will remain insolvent.

I've read posts that next of kin have no legal obligation to administer insolvent estates - but I fear this transfer may be classed as intermeddling. Is it intermeddling if I can prove traceability through using the same account to pay for the funeral, for which this will not even account a quarter of? As helpful as the gentleman in the bank was, should the bank have transferred the money to me without advising that this may be classed as intermeddling? Frankly I would rather cover the £700 for the funeral out of my own pocket than try to deal with this mess - if the debts are of enough importance to the creditors from the reading I have done tonight can they not volunteer to administer the estate? Do I have anything to worry about in that case? If I have intermeddled, is there anything I can do to put right my wrong, or am I liable to administer everything? Or just pay someone £700 and let a creditor administer the estate? Google and CAB haven't helped me much with this today - I appreciate it is complicated.

I am carrying out his wishes for his funeral and scattering, and without divulging my late Father's history I have tried to help my Dad with his issues (as did many others) prior to his unfortunate sudden passing. It is deeply sad that he died so unhappy and in such debt.

To clarify, there is no will, my sister and I are the only immediate family, neither of us have lived at his address, he has no secured assets.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

getmore4less

If there is nothing to administer it may not be as bad as you think just a lot of hassle but not much more than it would have been anyway.

The bank may not be happy with their employee as they may have requires setoff(come before funeral costs) for the current account debt. but that's done now.

You may want to take legal advice but this is my view.

I would argue(if it comes to that) that the funds release was for funeral expenses so is exempt from intermeddling.

Proceed on the basis that you have not intermeddled until someone tries to argue a case you have. and do nothing more that would be intermeddling

What can you do,

Arrange a funeral.

If he did not own the place he lived then you can remove for save keeping any personal stuff you want and any paper work that may become useful.
The intention is to allow the property to be returned to the owners as soon a they ask.
(they are responsible for clearing)

Notifications and enquiries can be done these are not intermeddling.
how deep you want to delve and tidy up the loose ends is up to you.

Utilities, DWP, HMRC, landlord, any known creditors are probably worth notifying(with fathers address not yours).

If it looks like it is insolvent then I think I would stop with the known notifications and let it run it course batting everything back as please contact the administrator. No need to go looking for any more debts.

Are there any other assets, if not then the creditors have nothing to go after if the funeral uses up the £700 o I can't see them bothering other than those that try the begging letters trying to suck family in to pay things.

You can't be liable for distributing wrong if there is nothing to distribute so the extra work might be a inventory and account to prove that.

You could step back even further and just do the funeral.

getmore4less

One other point on scattering in case you have not investigated that yet.

You have to get the landowners permission and a lot of places do not allow it for environmental reasons.

G6JNS

STAX4488 wrote: »

My Dad passed away last week. I have had his accounts frozen as I was advised to do this ASAP, the helpful gentleman in the bank froze his accounts, and with his current account overdrawn transferred the savings (£700 only) to my account (I am a customer of the same bank), writing in a letter as part of the internal bereavement case that this is going towards the funeral cost and the overdraft is to be written off (from reading threads here I doubt I should expect the same grace from other creditors...). The same gentleman advised that I write to the creditors to inform them of the death, and that there is no money beyond the funeral to pay his debts. There is no will to my knowledge, I have no letter of administration.

Having done some more reading I am worried I have inadvertently 'intermeddled' in the estate, I have found letters for unsecured debts that total over (to what can be accounted for only in post) £23k, I am weary there are likely more which I am unaware (no assets or secured debts). There is a pension from a job left in 1998 for which I have little details, but it is highly likely that the estate will remain insolvent.

I've read posts that next of kin have no legal obligation to administer insolvent estates - but I fear this transfer may be classed as intermeddling. Is it intermeddling if I can prove traceability through using the same account to pay for the funeral, for which this will not even account a quarter of? As helpful as the gentleman in the bank was, should the bank have transferred the money to me without advising that this may be classed as intermeddling? Frankly I would rather cover the £700 for the funeral out of my own pocket than try to deal with this mess - if the debts are of enough importance to the creditors from the reading I have done tonight can they not volunteer to administer the estate? Do I have anything to worry about in that case? If I have intermeddled, is there anything I can do to put right my wrong, or am I liable to administer everything? Or just pay someone £700 and let a creditor administer the estate? Google and CAB haven't helped me much with this today - I appreciate it is complicated.

I am carrying out his wishes for his funeral and scattering, and without divulging my late Father's history I have tried to help my Dad with his issues (as did many others) prior to his unfortunate sudden passing. It is deeply sad that he died so unhappy and in such debt.

To clarify, there is no will, my sister and I are the only immediate family, neither of us have lived at his address, he has no secured assets.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

If there is no money for the funeral the local authority have to pay. Don't sign a contract with an undertaker as that will make you liable for the funeral costs.

STAX4488

Thanks both, for the replies.

I think I may have made progress, took these words on board, called the bereavement advice centre late this morning and popped into town. The bank has made a note on the case to hold the funds and not pay them into my account (they were in an investment ISA, so not a simple transfer), though I was advised they would have to be directed somewhere... the Funeral Director direct should be OK?

I have the landowners permission for the scattering, and am happy to cover the funeral cost myself - I have no wish to abstain on this responsibility and leave the council to pick up the bill, it's just I fear it could take years of effort and stress to sort out his estate and if I make any errors I then leave myself vulnerable. It may be a crass view but it is not my mess and if the creditors want their money badly enough they can administer it themselves - at present I've no intent to recover the funeral cost from his pension, I don't wish for the additional stress.

I have done some things like arrange for the bulky items in his flat to be collected by the council and cleared out most of the flat - but if left I suppose the housing association would have cleared these themselves... I suppose my moral obligations are blurred somewhat! But I don't think I've dropped myself in it there. His possessions and utilities in the flat unfortunately are a drop in the ocean I suspect compared to what was owed. Once the funeral has passed and the flat returned my intent is to write to the creditors with copies of the death cert, no return address - factual letter keep it simple, and maybe get 30 minutes with a solicitor for some non obligation advice to assure myself. I suspect after 30 minutes I'd be hard pushed to find many willing to take this case on reading through past threads here !!

Getmore4less your advice in particular is much appreciated, I'll check up on the bank again in a few days to make sure that the holding of funds has been noted and hope that this doesn't end up in my account still - I commended the person I dealt with previously for their effort, can't expect the laymen in branch to know the full extent of legalities in such complicated circumstances. Thank you