Parking ticket for parking before opening time

Daman2971985

The problem there is i did break the T&Cs, Theres a section on the sign marked with "Sun : 10am to 4:30PM" and below that "no parking outside these times". I did enter before 10am, although i did leave after 10am.

maybe i should try arguing that i was oblivious to what day of the week it was as the entry time is earlier during the week :rotfl:

Herzlos

Did you see that on the way in? Did they do anything to prevent you breaching the T&Cs? Did your breach cost them anything?

If the answer to any of them is "no", either you didn't breach the contract (by the merit of the contract not actually being in force) or your breach didn't cost them anything and you still adhered to the spirit of the contract as you were a customer.

Since it's up to the PPC to refute your claims, you should make as many claims as possible.

Daman2971985

Herzlos wrote: »

Did you see that on the way in?

I did see the signs, but only really read the "2 hours stay" bit, there's no way i believe anyone could read an entire sign like that from a moving vehicle!.

i've been in that store before and knew it was a free car park and seeing as i was planning on going into the shop the idea of out of hours charges didnt pop into my head. My fault for not knowing what time the shop actually opened i suppose, but to be honest the exact opening hours of shops on weekends isn't something ive ever felt the need to memorize

Herzlos wrote: »

Did they do anything to prevent you breaching the T&Cs?

Nope, and there is places in the car park entrance for those bollard things, so ive included a section of "failure to mitigate Loss" in my planned POPLA appeal

Herzlos wrote: »

Did your breach cost them anything?

Again Nope, i was there before the store opened so the car park was totally empty, even by the time the store opned there was just staff members cars in there with me, and its a big carpark for just one store!

Herzlos

Daman2971985 wrote: »

I did see the signs, but only really read the "2 hours stay" bit, there's no way i believe anyone could read an entire sign like that from a moving vehicle!.

You should, if local, try and get a video of the sign when driven past at the speed limit, to highlight how little of it can be read. Photos of the sign from the car too to show it's size/location.

They'll claim it's perfectly clear and show you best-light photos of the signs (probably taken from 6ft+ high and on the embankment at the side).

If you can't read beyond the "2 hours free", you didn't enter a contract to do anything beyond park for 2 hours free. The small print may as well not exist.

Daman2971985

Ok, so the appeal was submitted a little while back, using POPLAS godawful new forms. i think i manged to get most of the points into their rather prescriptive layout, but time will tell on that one how effective the old appeal formats are.

Has anyone else started going through the new system yet? as i received an email from popla stating that parkingeye have sent in their case file and im being given the opportunity to comment on their response, however when i log into popla, the system states "The operator didn't provide a case summary".

does that mean they haven't bothered to reply, and if so does anyone have any advice as to what i should say in my comments section?

ive been through the stickys, but this new popla system hasnt been around long so im not sure what comments i should make! im thiking something like "they cant dispute my arguments, so thus the ticket should be revoked" (well like that but more formal and better written )

Ralph-y

your post looks to confirm this blog

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/new-popla-process.html

is there not a 'contact us' link to POPLA / Ombudsman ?

Ralph:cool:

Daman2971985

I have read that blog before, and can confirm its accurate.
There are some contact details on popla site, but ive found them to be very slow to respond (I had to request they resent my appeal confirmation as they forgot the attachment), it took over a week to get a response. I’ve only got 7 days (5 now) to respond to ParkingEyes (non-existent) case file. So I figure I have to go this alone.

I have been thinking about what comment I could make and am thinking about the following, though I’m a little concerned I’m teaching the assessor to suck eggs... I wonder if perhaps the assessor is not a person I want to annoy!




In my original appeal I detailed 11 reasons for my appeal, full details are in the appeal however the points were:
1. The signage at the site is inconsistent with that stated in the PCN,
2. The opening hours of the store are not clearly marked,
3. Failure to mitigate loss,
4. Unclear Contract Terms,
5. ParkingEye Ltd has no contractual authority,
6. The charge is punitive and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss,
7. Keeper Liability Requirements and the Protection of Freedom Act,
8. No Contract was entered into between the Parking Eye and the Driver or Registered keeper,
9. Unfair terms of contract,
10. Without a contract,
11. Non BPA compliant signage.

Given that ParkingEye are incapable of responding to any of the points listed above I would argue that they are well aware that they are not compliant with BPA regulations, know that the above grounds are all valid and know that this appeal should be granted. I would construe this lack of response as being the Operator indicating that it does not wish to contest the appeal.

It would appear clear that the appeal should be granted on all of the 11 points raised above, however, to simplify proceedings I would like to draw your attention to point 5. Specifically, ParkingEye has not produced any evidence to demonstrate that it is the land-owner; or, any contract or other evidence that it has the authority of the land-owner to issue parking charge notices at this site. Because I have raised this issue it is for the Operator to demonstrate that it has authority, which they have not done.

Daman2971985

Im also a bit concerned if i give them the wording like that the assessor wont bother to consider the other 10 points and just award on point 5.... good for me :cool:, but bad for everyone else in this forum trying to learn what works and what doesnt !

Umkomaas

In the hundreds of decisions I've seen, POPLA has never upheld an appeal based on multi points. As soon as there is an appeal point where they can decide in favour of the motorist, that's as far as they go...... and state in their decision letter that they do not need to consider other points of appeal.

Coupon-mad

Don't try to rebut evidence you haven't seen. Ask POPLA for an extension because the evidence has not been sent to you yet, then ask for seven days from when you tell them you have it.