ESA/UC - removal of payment for those unable to work for everyone from 2017.

rogerblack

The proposals in the welfare reform bill 2015/16 to remove the 'limited capacity for work' payment for those who are put in the 'work related activity group' for new claims have been well publicised.

However, the same reform bill also entirely removes as a reason for payment LCW at all from universal credit.
There is no provision, even for migrated claims of ESA with no change in condition under the amended legislation for anyone to be paid a LCW element.

This means that all existing claimants of UC and people migrated over to UC (which is supposed to be finished by 2017) will have this payment removed.


These are not only people who are reasonably likely to be able to get work in principle if they tried.
There may be some of these. They are also people with significant, perhaps lifelong multiple disabilities that have significant extra living costs and no realistic prospect of ever being employable.



In more detail.
Secondary legislation can only operate with powers given to them under primary legislation.
Part 13.4 of the WRA 2015 says ‘The SOS may make provision for transitional arrangements’. Para 5 gives specific cases where new claims of ESA may still get WRA – and only lists conversions from prior benefits.
However.

This does not apply at all to 14- which removes section a from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/12 – universal credit, not ESA.
This totally removes the possibility for any payment of WRA under any circumstances for a UC award – and does not indeed (as I mention earlier incorrectly) even give a savings provision for those on UC already getting it.
If this goes into legislation as planned, secondary legislation cannot ever give anyone migrated over from ESA a LCW payment, and anyone on UC and getting a LCW payment will have it stopped.
The removal from UC of the LCW is modifying a completely different act of parliament, and there is no way you can read 13.4 – modifying the welfare reform act 2007 – as having any powers to modify either the WRA 2015, or the WRA 2012.

keaton

Is the LCW a element of the universal credit/esa benefit, or is this government removing the full benefit amount for certain people?

rogerblack

keaton wrote: »

Is the LCW a element of the universal credit/esa benefit, or is this government removing the full benefit amount for certain people?

I was trying to keep it short.

The amount paid for having limited capacity for work - this is an extra amount - is being removed.

It ends up so that someone who is disabled enough so as to never be realistically employable again in any job by any employer gets precisely the same amount as someone who is looking for work.
To be clear - there are a large number of people in the work-related group that have short-term illnesses and will be fit for work in the near future. This is arguably reasonable for them.

This is on the basis that '70% of people on ESA in the work-related group want to work' and 'it is a perverse incentive to stay on ESA'.

Confuseddot

Oh dear thats not good, I am sure most people out of work due to illness would love to be back working but whether thats a realistic expectation is another matter.

Also if the 30 pounds was used to provide services for those on WRAG whether it be health related or back to work related then it wouldn't be so bad.

Tribunal services going to be over run with appeals to get into support group.

KxMx

So basically everyone currently in ESA WRAG who breathed a sigh of relief over the budget will also be screwed over.

Can't say i'm surprised

rogerblack

skcollobcat10 wrote: »

So does this mean people in the wrag group esa who receive it now will loose that benefit and just receive jsa?

'No' but yes.

Come 2017, it is currently timetabled that everyone on ESA will move over to UC.

At that time, everyone in the work-related group of ESA will be moved to UC, and as there is no WRAG payment on UC now, will not get it, but will get exactly the same amount as a fit claimant would get. (they will not be required to seek work to the same degree)

This includes those who are currently in the work-related group and are not immediately affected by the removal of WRAG payment for new claims of ESA.

rogerblack

skcollobcat10 wrote: »

What about people on contribution based support group esa? Will they loose their benefit as well?

That's basically irrelevant to a large degree.

People on the work-related group of ESA get contributions ESA for 52 weeks only (including assessment time)
Come the above act coming into force, most of them will have exhausted that, and be on income-related ESA.

So, anyone migrating over onto UC from an already existing 'protected' award of WRAG can in most circumstances only be paid already if they had some entitlement to income-related ESA.

The changes to ESA do not exempt those making a new claim of conts-ESA after the 2015/16 bill come into force from not being paid WRAG.

It's horribly confusing.

rogerblack

skcollobcat10 wrote: »

Will people in the support group esa be exempt from uc or will they to loose the support group element if transferred onto uc?

People in the support group are not affected at all by these changes.
Even on universal credit, or with a new claim of ESA, they will receive the extra payment.

pmlindyloo

rogerblack

I have read the Welfare reform bill and your original post and I have to say that I am finding it difficult to get my head around this.

I understand that new claimants will not receive the WRAG component but are you saying that when people claiming ESA WRAG and are moved to UC then they will lose the component and there is no transitional protection?(as there is for other claimants of UC)

Plus, are you saying that the legislation in the Welfare Reform Act cannot be changed later (I think you called this secondary legislation) so that there is transitional protection?

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the act allowed for some future legislation about transitional protection?

How does this work when the regs for UC include a transitional protection for the whole amount of any benefits a claimant is receiving? Has this protection been removed for everyone?

Sorry if I am being 'thick'!

rogerblack

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I understand that new claimants will not receive the WRAG component but are you saying that when people claiming ESA WRAG and are moved to UC then they will lose the component and there is no transitional protection?(as there is for other claimants of UC)

yes.

How does this work when the regs for UC include a transitional protection for the whole amount of any benefits a claimant is receiving? Has this protection been removed for everyone?

Sorry if I am being 'thick'!

What do you mean by this transitional protection?

It's complex.

In short - primary legislation is acts of parliament.
this gets (usually) fully discussed in parliament and has many stages.

Primary legislation will usually have clauses like in 13.4 of the welfare reform and work bill 2016.
'The secetary of state may make such regulations setting out transitional protections' ... 'these regulations must be in the form of a statutory instrument'.

Statutory instruments may undergo no scrutiny whatsoever by parliament, and just come into force.

They however cannot exceed the powers given to them by primary legislation.

The SI mentioned above cannot do anything more than amend part 1 of the welfare reform act 2007.

Para 5 gives specific cases where new claims of ESA may still get WRA – and only lists conversions from prior benefits.
However.

This does not apply at all to 14- which removes section a from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/section/12 – universal credit, not ESA.
This totally removes the possibility for any payment of WRA under any circumstances for a UC award .




If this goes into legislation as planned, secondary legislation cannot ever give anyone migrated over from ESA a LCW payment, and anyone on UC and getting a LCW payment will have it stopped.


The removal from UC of the LCW is modifying a completely different act of parliament, and there is no way you can read 13.4 – modifying the welfare reform act 2007 – as having any powers to modify either the WRA 2015, or the WRA 2012.

Sorry this is probably still unclear, I'm not properly awake.

pmlindyloo

This is what I meant by transitional protection:

11. Transitional protection
You will not lose out immediately when you are moved onto universal credit if your circumstances remain the same. You will get ‘transitional protection’ if your universal credit is less than what you would get under the old system. This will be an extra amount to make up the difference between the old and the new. You will continue to get this until you are entitled to receive more under universal credit than under the old benefits (which could mean your universal credit is effectively frozen for several years). The transitional protection may be terminated if your circumstances change (eg if you separate from your partner or become a partner). The amount you receive will still be affected by the benefit cap rules (see section 8 above). (Disabilityrightsuk.org.uk)