Advice on an appeal?

Moopsey

Hi all,

My partner received two PCNs by UKPC last month for parking in his workplace and apparently not showing a valid parking permit. It just so happens that he does have a valid permit which were actually visible to anyone looking into the car. He has now been sent the NtK.

He is going to appeal using the advice provided in the newbies sticky. However we have a quick question. The advice is not to disclose the driver information. The permit and accompanying letter are in his name as he is an employee parking in the staff carpark. This would obviously point the finger at him being the driver . Do you think we should leave out the driver /keeper bit from our appeal?

Also, as the NtK is dated six days ago, does this mean he has to complete the first appeal to UKPC and possibly the second POPLA appeal all within the 28 days?

Any advice really appreciated.
Thanks

Northlakes

I would suggest that the advice is still to remain as the 'keeper'. A husband/wife or partner can work at the same place so there is no evidence that the permit holder was the in fact the driver.

You will have two appeals to do and get two POPLA codes. Each PCN has a separate appeal timescale and you need to get each done well within the 28 days of issue.

fisherjim

The permit and accompanying letter are in his name as he is an employee parking in the staff carpark. This would obviously point the finger at him being the driver

This is not evidence of who was driving on the day.
My wife has a permit to park at her place of work, sometime she drives, sometimes I drop her off, and pick her up, and go into the building to wait for her.

Say nothing about who was driving, it would be up to them to find out, and prove it.

ColliesCarer

Moopsey wrote: »

......
Also, as the NtK is dated six days ago, does this mean he has to complete the first appeal to UKPC and possibly the second POPLA appeal all within the 28 days?

Any advice really appreciated.
Thanks

The sequence (for each NtK received) is :

- 1st appeal to UKPC - submitted within 28 days of date of issue of NtK
- wait for rejection letter containing POPLA code
- draft a winning POPLA appeal with forum help
- submit appeal to POPLA within the deadline - should be 28 days from date of rejection letter (once you get the code you can check it - see post #3 of **NEWBIES!! thread and the link to the Parking Cowboys POPLA checker)
- wait for evidence pack from UKPC in reponse to your POPLA appeal (usually only arrives about a week before the assessment date POPLA will send you - if they send one at all)
- check the evidence pack and submit further rebuttals/challenges to POPLA before the assessment date.

Moopsey

Thanks all for your helpful comments. I'm about to send the appeals, could somebody have a quick look and see if this is alright? We will also be attaching a copy of the permit as proof, do you think that's okay to do? Thanks so much,

Date
xxxxx

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. .........xxxxx

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). A valid parking permit is displayed visibly in the vehicle at all times. The vehicle is registered to park freely within the grounds. See attached for a copy.
b) The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
c) The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
d). There is no evidence that you have any interest in the land. I will complain to the landowner about your aggressive ticketing.
e). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability.
f). I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty.

Formal challenge
As the vehicle has a valid parking permit to park within the premises, there are no grounds to issue a parking charge.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Redx

seems ok to me , dont forget to do it twice, with a different pcn number on each appeal

you can delete the IAS sentences as UKPC offer popla (when pressed , lol)

you can redact the permit if you wish , stating the full permit will be shown to a judge when they show the unredacted contract to the same judge ( if it ever got that far )

the popla appeal is done within 28 days of receiving the refusal notification , not within 28 days from now or from the alleged date of the problems

its 28 days to appeal the NTK, then 28 days to appeal to popla when you have popla codes, the whole thing drags on for about 3 months maybe

why are you not having him complain to the workplace owner or landowner and insisting on a landowner cancellation ? (the people that employed the par@sites)

Moopsey

Thanks so much Redx! He is going to speak to them tomorrow about a cancellation, however he says that many of his colleagues have been stung by PCNs there and when speaking to HR about escalating it so that they are cancelled as they all have permits, they're just told to sort it out themselves. Not a very fair way of behaving. So I'm preparing all of this just in case he gets the same reply.

Redx

the landowner etc is jointly responsible for sorting it out, seems that HR cannot be @rsed more like

so although you try the landowner approach, get popla codes and appeal twice to popla AS WELL , using winning arguments (not mitigation , not I HAVE A VALID PERMIT) and as long as you win UKPC will have to pay out £27 +vat for each popla appeal, in which case get as many people doing it as possible and cost them as much as you can

Moopsey

He'll try to get his colleagues to do the same.

Had a thought. What happens if they reject the appeal, and the popla one isn't successful either? What's the next stage? Will they demand full payment including legal costs etc?

Redx

Moopsey wrote: »

He'll try to get his colleagues to do the same.

Had a thought. What happens if they reject the appeal, and the popla one isn't successful either? What's the next stage? Will they demand full payment including legal costs etc?

they may well do , yes, although there is no compulsion for him to pay

but they could then try a court case in the next 6 years, under small claims (MCOL)

Moopsey

Hello, quick question as I can't find it anywhere on here. Which company is it that was recommended on this forum who appeal your parking tickets for you?
Thanks