POPLA Appeal Refused - advice please

gratuitous

bazster - my appeal (from memory this - have just emailed POPLA for online evidence) was PPC have not yet established the driver and that no parking took place - there can be no evidence of it - as it didn't happen. The full response from POPLA is above - nothing else - no mention of driver.

hoohoo

I think you did not appeal carefully enough to get the point across to POPLA. I think a clearer appeal would have been.

The ticket was issued because the vehicle drove in a bus lane. The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012, sch 4 is specifically concerned with PARKING on private land. By definition, a moving vehicle cannot be parked. The Act does not therefore apply and there is no keeper liability. As keeper, I am not liable. Only the driver is liable.

Additionally, not contract can be entered into. It is impossible for the signage to form a contract with a person in a moving vehicle because for offer and acceptance to take place the consumer must have time to read and understand the entire contract. This cannot have happened in this case as the sign contains too many words and the font is too small.

(see the Prankster's analysis of Liverpool airport as an example on how to show signage is inadequate to form a contract in a moving vehicle http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/vehicle-control-systems-signage-at.html)

bazster

hoohoo wrote: »

I think you did not appeal carefully enough to get the point across to POPLA. I think a clearer appeal would have been.

I agree. You have to spell everything out for PoPLA, they will not join the dots!

Marktheshark

I understand POPLA scour these boards.
POPLA you have a rouge assessor that needs to be taken off front line duties immediately until they are correctly trained.
As a local council run outfit you are subject to the compliance of the LGO office.

Guys_Dad

Marktheshark wrote: »

I understand POPLA scour these boards.
POPLA you have a rouge assessor that needs to be taken off front line duties immediately until they are correctly trained.
As a local council run outfit you are subject to the compliance of the LGO office.

So the assessor will have a red face in more ways than one then??? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

gratuitous

Just returning to this thread as the appeal with POPLA is being reconsidered. I have a few days to submit 'further evidence'.


To re-cap, my original evidence was basically - 1. PPC has never ascertained who was driving and 2. no parking took place.


I need to get this right to get closure at long last.


Would the advice be to submit something like hoohoo's suggestion above ?


Thanks in anticipation !

ManxRed

Yes, I would use HooHoo's advice above. Do you have any pics of the parking signs to support the second assertion that no contract could possibly be formed with the driver while moving at speed? You might want to check out the Parking Prankster blog about signs at JLA that he's also provided, and possibly take excerpts of that to support.

gratuitous

ManxRed - thanks for the response. There are no parking charges signs if that is what you mean - primarily because it is not a car park - it is a access lane (a loop which rejoins the main road after 50 yards or so). I'm not local at all so this is from memory. The PCC have already provided blown up images of the 'no unauthorised access' signs.

ManxRed

Ooops, yes, not parking.

So the signs they have provided, do they contain terms and conditions, clearly readable from a moving vehicle. The sign needs to convey to the driver the core terms and conditions, and the contracting party (the name and address of the parking company.

If the signs don't contain any details of the core terms and/are unreadable from a moving vehicle then 'no contract formed'.

gratuitous

Still not entirely sure what the main appeal should be ...


Regardless of any signs it is not a parking charge - it cannot be as no parking took place


Do I even need to justify the driving down the lane aspect ? Of course I am only the registered keeper and no one has ascertained the identity of the driver.


Can't help thinking that if POPLA are now considering non-parking issues it may open the floodgates for the poor hard-done-by PPCs to set up cameras on access roads as well as car parks.


I have no idea of the legal aspect of driving along a private road as opposed to parking on it... is that trespass I wonder ?


Any help much appreciated.