Renting in your 40's and staring into the abyss

ukcarper

missyrichards wrote: »

Exactly, I think some people have a very idealised view of parents on here, not everybody is able to live with their parents rent-free to save up a huge deposit. Also some parents want their kids to be independent after leaving uni which is fair enough and might not want them living with them.:D

I agree it's not possible for everyone to live with their parents but there are other ways to reduce housing costs .

Parents may want their kids to be independent but some are prepared to put up with the inconvenience of having their kids at home if necessary. In life things quite often don't go as you would like them to.

remorseless

I wasn't looking to stir things up... I understand there're many different family situation. That's fine.

I also understand that many marriages do end up in divorce. I think UK average is 40+%... so pretty likely chance!

The comments (to me) sounded like it's common for parents not to help their kids (so that they can be independent) or that kids don't get along with their folks much.

I suppose it's another culture thing I learnt today about the UK!

I am surprised cause in Australia I don't believe there's this trend (yet)... divorces plenty, then kids live with one parent or the other or back and forth and because of the housing crisis in most cities, kids tend to leave their nest much later... I am sure it happens, maybe not so widespread!

Cornucopia

There's all sorts of social trends in the UK (as you would expect).

That makes what happens in a discussion like this difficult and painful because it constantly flips between generalisations about the entire population (some of which are unfounded) and specific, personal anecdotes that are true, but just about one person's experiences.

The official figures show that people are leaving it later both to buy property and to have children. It's likely that the two things are related, but much more than that takes us into speculative territory.

One thing that annoys me every time I hear it (and I heard it on the radio a couple of days ago) is that property is by definition unaffordable because average house prices exceed average wages by X times. It should be blindingly obvious to all but the most economically illiterate people that average earners do not have to buy average houses, not only that, but we expect a proportion of the population to rent rather than buy.

Graham_Devon

Cornucopia wrote: »

One thing that annoys me every time I hear it (and I heard it on the radio a couple of days ago) is that property is by definition unaffordable because average house prices exceed average wages by X times. It should be blindingly obvious to all but the most economically illiterate people that average earners do not have to buy average houses, not only that, but we expect a proportion of the population to rent rather than buy.

No, but you need something to measure things on, and that's kind of the measurement.

If your average earner can only afford the starter or smaller home, then what is everyone earning less than average (50% of the population) supposed to do?

lisyloo

Graham_Devon wrote: »

No, but you need something to measure things on, and that's kind of the measurement.

If your average earner can only afford the starter or smaller home, then what is everyone earning less than average (50% of the population) supposed to do?

Earn more e.g. evening job, share, rent or move somewhere cheaper. Or of course move back in with you ever-loving parents.

Cornucopia

Graham_Devon wrote: »

No, but you need something to measure things on, and that's kind of the measurement.

But it's a dumb, meaningless comparison.

If your average earner can only afford the starter or smaller home, then what is everyone earning less than average (50% of the population) supposed to do?

But there isn't a translation from income across to housing need, not at average earnings and not at any other level of earnings.

If I earn a shed-load of money and choose to live in a smallish, cheapish flat instead of buying the vast mansion I could afford, what does that do to the analysis?

And what about commuting distance and other distortions of purchasing? Do I buy a tiny flat in central London, at the bottom of the market, or do I buy an enormous house for less money in the Home Counties or beyond which is at the top of the market?

The comparison (of average wages to average house price) is meaningless for a huge range of reasons. I would go with some kind of regional index of actual sale prices vs. the incomes of the actual people sold to. That would give much more of a realistic measure of stress in the market.

Cornucopia

lisyloo wrote: »

Earn more e.g. evening job, share, rent or move somewhere cheaper. Or of course move back in with you ever-loving parents.

And of course, when we're talking about earnings, because of the varying size of different sectors of the workforce, average earnings are much, much closer to minimum earnings than they are to any notional maximum.

lisyloo

average earnings

I would assume we are talking about median which is usually the case because it's widely acknowledge that mean is highed skewed by a few top earners.
Last time I checked median was £27K outside London and £34K inside London for male full time earnings.

missyrichards

Single people are at a definite disadvantage too, especially in London and the South East. I think if you are single and privately renting and you can't move back in with your parents then you are seriously screwed if you want to buy a first place.

It's very easy to say as a couple you can save up together and make sacrifices but are people just going to pair off with the nearest desperado just to get on the property ladder!:p

ukcarper

lisyloo wrote: »

I would assume we are talking about median which is usually the case because it's widely acknowledge that mean is highed skewed by a few top earners.
Last time I checked median was £27K outside London and £34K inside London for male full time earnings.

£27k is all fulltime workers Male is £29.4k its £38.4k for London or £42.6k for inner London.