Help. Should I negotiate with an architect on cost?

jonnytekno

I am planning some extensive renovation to my house and have had quotes from a couple of architects.

I expect the total work to cost around £100k (inc. suites and decorating, but not including architects fees). I have chosen (not told him yet) a particular architect based on his other work, references and his enthusiasm for the project. His outlined fees are around £5k which is design/plans, building regs and approvals (and also includes estimated costs to councoil etc), detailed plans and tender process with builders, but NOT the onsite management part.

We only got to this stage with one other architect and his prices were very similar although very slightly cheaper.

So 2 questions:

1: I know its hard to say without the full details of the project, but does this seem broadly OK to anyone who has been through this before?
2: Is it the 'done thing' to negotiate on any of these costs with an architect and, if so, how and which costs should we look at?

At the end of the day I want to get a good service, so I don't want to start squeezing cost if it means we don't get his full focus, however if architects start at a price expecting to be negotiated then I need to take advantage of that.

Many thanks in advance

phill99

It takes 7 years to train as an architect and achieve ARIBA status. Why do you think it's acceptable to be so distespectful to his professionalism as to try and push him down on fees?

System

what have they based the fees on?
are they registered architects?

It's not that common to negotiate the fees on a small domestic job, you could ask them to work on an hourly rate but with the nature of a job like this you will probably find the hours are eaten up very quickly!

with a construction cost of 100k the fee seems low but if it's not including site works it's about the right money - tbh if you've had a couple of quotes which are very close and you are happy with the architect i'm not sure trying to cut their fee is a good start to the project. unless there are clear work stages you want to exclude, although if you make it too small, it's possible a busy architect will walk away

Furts

On television we view programmes like "Builder From Hell", or similar titles. What is often overlooked is that the builders and professionals working in the industry are often thinking "this is the client from hell". Of course this never makes it onto the television screens.

Were I the architect that OP refers to then my alarm bells would be ringing. I would be thinking this is the opening round of months of interaction. I may then decide that I am so busy that OP will have to look elsewhere.

brightontraveller

Why do you believe there is room for negotiations? Are they desperate for work, overcharging, or client doesn’t wish anyone else other than themselves to make a living?

It’s your money so you can do what you want? Ditto there business they can ignore, oblige or walk away... What % are you expecting less than 100 more than 500 more than 1000 and whats the real cost of discount? Some add little extras assist you more etc if there happy with initial fee’s other’s bill for every second regardless of initial fee's being high or low … Personally I would question why I believe a discount is appropriate and act accordingly ?

jonnytekno

phill99 wrote: »

It takes 7 years to train as an architect and achieve ARIBA status. Why do you think it's acceptable to be so distespectful to his professionalism as to try and push him down on fees?

I don't think it's acceptable, I'm asking the question whether it's acceptable, precisely because I don't know.

I know for a fact that it is acceptable and expected to negotiate when buying a ring from a jewellers; but I have no insight whatsoever into these practices in the world of architects, hence my question.

no1catman

I don't think it wise to 'penny-pinch' with the architect - choose the one you are most at ease with, whose got the experience of previous work that is similar to what you want.
You want him on your side, to deal with any queries e.g. with the Council. He/she can give you options which may save you money.


Though even if he/she recommends a builder, still do all the checks you need to, to ensure a happy ending!!

arbrighton

We paid similar to ours to get to that stage- wouldn't have dreamed of negotiating their fees, partly because my sister is an architect and I know how hard she had to work to qualify.

I just wish I hadn't kept them on for the project management. That was handled by a different architect to the one who did the design work and it was a NIGHTMARE. Picky, annoyed me and the builders, didn't spot mistakes.

oh and BTW, it's RIBA not ARIBA....

System

arbrighton wrote: »

We paid similar to ours to get to that stage- wouldn't have dreamed of negotiating their fees, partly because my sister is an architect and I know how hard she had to work to qualify.

I just wish I hadn't kept them on for the project management. That was handled by a different architect to the one who did the design work and it was a NIGHTMARE. Picky, annoyed me and the builders, didn't spot mistakes.

oh and BTW, it's RIBA not ARIBA....

picky and didn't spot mistakes - sounds like a nightmare!

It's actually the ARB who are the statutory body, RIBA/RIAS can be signed up to but aren't necessary to use the title (although RIBA do have their own code of conduct)

Annie1960

My rule of thumb is that I will often negotiate on price if I'm buying and thing (such as a car, kitchen etc), but never on someone's time and labour.

Furts

arbrighton wrote: »

We paid similar to ours to get to that stage- wouldn't have dreamed of negotiating their fees, partly because my sister is an architect and I know how hard she had to work to qualify.

I just wish I hadn't kept them on for the project management. That was handled by a different architect to the one who did the design work and it was a NIGHTMARE. Picky, annoyed me and the builders, didn't spot mistakes.

.

There are good and not so good architects out there.There are also architects who prefer certain types of construction - perhaps office blocks, or schools, for example. Many architects are also sketchy on their knowledge of day to day fundamental construction.

This is not a "let's knock architects" rant it is simply pointing out commercial realities that consumers are either not aware of, or tend to ignore.

The reality is a Project Manager will be more proficient at managing a project. Likewise architects used to employ Clerks of Works in the knowledge that architects were dismal on the day to day site operations. Quantity Surveyors are employed on the financial side and Structural Engineers deal with the nuts and bolts. Add in the Building Inspector, and the contractors team of an Estimator and a Quantity Surveyor and one should be aware that many professionals are involved in construction.

The bottom line is that consumers expect an architect to make a good Project Manager. They also think building is easy and that Grand Designs, Melissa and Dom are the ultimate.

The reality is that Architects are not Project Managers - they are designers. They can operate this role but it is not in their comfort zone. Hence the end result is variable.