Elderly parents living in poverty

atush

They had very poor advice from the CAB,.

But can you confirm if the parent who didn't have their own contributions has claimed their 60% state pension? If not, why not? It will be 18 years deferred at 10% a year?

That increased income alone will mean a cash flow they can live on.

And if they needed care, they can pay for help in their home from savings, then sell their home and move to a care home together.

ViolaLass

The problem is, OP, that your parents don't have to live like this, they are choosing to.

Thus, the only thing I can really advise is for them not to choose to.

Are they worried about losing everything i.e. nothing to pass on or about being unable to afford the care they want? These may be conflicting priorities for them.

leedsfan757

Didn't know this would be fraud?
Ridiculous.
Truly awful initial post made worse by the tone of the one above.

greenglide

Is one of them not receiving any state pension?

Under the current rules anybody who is 80 years or older and is resident in UK and has been for the last 10 years or more can claim a category D pension which is currently £69.50 per week.

Need to speak to the pensions service?

margaretclare

Hoonay wrote: »

No, I don't 'know this would be fraud'. If I did, I would not be asking so openly. I thought this was an open forum where you come to ask advice which is what I am doing.

My wording is terrible. By retirement home, I/they mean a care home, if health deteriorates further, post strokes.

By benefits, I mean dental care specifically and any council tax deductions for low income. They need to be means tested and although income is less than £7k per year, because the house they live in has high value and because of savings, they cannot qualify for discounts it seems. If that's what it is, fine - I'm asking for advice.

Yes POVERTY. Strong word isn't it? When OAPS wrap themselves in newspaper to stay warm in bed in the winter, can't afford nursing, heating, emergency dental, orthopaedics, new shoes etc.

They visited Citizens Advice Bureau a couple of years ago for advice and were told to not spend a penny of any savings as it will be needed for when one goes in to a care home and will probably get them a year to two years max. So they are now terrified to dip in to savings as it's kept only for that reason. They don't want to be separated and put in to hospices or homes so are imposing this on themselves - yes imposing being the operative word before the peanut gallery starts up again.

As a concerned daughter, of course I am going to ask in general what can be done.

A NURSE suggested my father gifts his savings to a family member to look after so he can get a discount on council tax.

I think your parents had extremely poor advice both from CAB and from the nurse. CAB are mainly volunteers, but a nurse is a professional person and should not have made such an unethical suggestion.

They can get dental care from an NHS dentist. Some charges may be made, but set these against the comfort of having proper teeth that actually work at mealtimes and are painless, never mind the appearance. I googled for this: http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/Dentalcosts.aspx

I'm not sure why you think they should pay for orthopaedics. Isn't that still under the NHS?

No, I must disagree with you. Yes, poverty is a strong word, and it's a word of which I've had personal experience. But to say that a person who deliberately makes a choice not to afford proper bedding, shoes, and all the other things you list, that's not poverty but miserliness.

Poverty is not having any money at all until the next slice of income arrives. It is having to walk home because you don't have the bus fare. It is having to shop in charity shops, not because you like looking for bargains, but because you can't afford to buy new. Basically it is lack of income to cover the essentials. Your parents are choosing not to spend their savings on essentials. Income vs savings. Not the same thing at all.

As someone else has said, your parents saved for a rainy day. The rainy day has now arrived.

greenglide

Didn't know this would be fraud?

Making yourself poor so you can claim earnings related benefits?

If it is done intentionally then of course it is.

If unintentionally - how?

Hoonay

Spelunthus wrote: »

I'm sympathetic to the OP. What they mean is "Elderly parents CHOOSE to live as if they were poor"... and that's not an uncommon occurrence for the 80s-90s generation. They're being "frugal" - it just looks like "mean". IMHO this is a human-relations issue, not a financial one. The OP needs to get into major dialogue with parents ; what do they want, can they see how contrary they're behaving etc. and encourage them to spend on themselves, downsize, equity release or whatever. You may consider talking about POA as an option, if they are truely unable to cope. All these views from my own experience. Good luck.

leedsfan757 wrote: »

Didn't know this would be fraud?
Ridiculous.
Truly awful initial post made worse by the tone of the one above.

Amazing isn't it? Some people actually not already knowing the law when it comes to gifting money/inheritance/savings/council tax deductions? Thank god for you setting people like me straight about my knowledge and tone - just what this forum was set up for (I imagine). Please carry on.

dunstonh

No, I don't 'know this would be fraud'. If I did, I would not be asking so openly.

Ok. You now know it would be classed as deprivation of assets.

It would also create a tax issue as it neither avoids inheritance tax and it introduces capital gains tax.

Yes POVERTY. Strong word isn't it? When OAPS wrap themselves in newspaper to stay warm in bed in the winter, can't afford nursing, heating, emergency dental, orthopaedics, new shoes etc.

But with £40k in the bank and an unencumbered property, they are clearly not at the level of poverty.

If they choose to wrap themselves in newspaper that is a choice as they clearly have funds available. So, poverty is the wrong word for you to use.

They visited Citizens Advice Bureau a couple of years ago for advice and were told to not spend a penny of any savings as it will be needed for when one goes in to a care home and will probably get them a year to two years max.

Bad advice if that was the case or a misunderstanding.

They don't want to be separated and put in to hospices or homes so are imposing this on themselves - yes imposing being the operative word before the peanut gallery starts up again.

Who put that idea in their head?

A NURSE suggested my father gifts his savings to a family member to look after so he can get a discount on council tax.

Its very nice of her to recommend fraud. However, she doesnt have to face the consequences of her poor advice.

As a concerned daughter, of course I am going to ask in general what can be done.

let them spend their money so they have a life in their later years. Maybe even consider equity release. Get a lasting power of attorney sorted and encourage them to stop worrying.

They could also visit the benefits agency as they may well be entitled to a range of benefits. Some ignore capital and look at income.

You are getting a negative reaction as you were looking to defraud the taxpayer. So, do keep that in mind when you start attacking those who have pointed it out. Its good you are looking to help but fraud is not the way to do it.

xylophone

income is less than £7k per year,

This cannot be the case if one is earning about this amount and the other is receiving state pension?

With regard to state pension, if one is entitled to full state pension, why is the other not claiming on his/her contributions?

And see https://www.gov.uk/over-80-pension/eligibility

I think you need to look into this on your parents' behalf.

Dental treatment and a home that is safe, hygienic and watertight are essentials as are warm shoes, clothing and bedding - they need to spend some capital on this - I don't think that any decision maker would regard this as deprivation of capital.

On the other hand, giving their capital to a relative or anybody else so as to claim benefits would be and they could find themselves in hot water.

So, plan of action - investigate pension situation - arrange dental treatment and house repairs - buy sheets and clothing - look into pension credit after necessary spending- investigate whether either can claim AA?

Cheeky_Monkey

Hoonay wrote: »

No, I don't 'know this would be fraud'. If I did, I would not be asking so openly. I thought this was an open forum where you come to ask advice which is what I am doing.

My wording is terrible. By retirement home, I/they mean a care home, if health deteriorates further, post strokes.

By benefits, I mean dental care specifically and any council tax deductions for low income. They need to be means tested and although income is less than £7k per year, because the house they live in has high value and because of savings, they cannot qualify for discounts it seems. If that's what it is, fine - I'm asking for advice.

Yes POVERTY. Strong word isn't it? When OAPS wrap themselves in newspaper to stay warm in bed in the winter, £50 notes more likecan't afford nursing yes they can, heating yes they can, emergency dental, yes they can orthopaedics, yes they can new shoes etc. and finally, once more with feeling - yes they can

They visited Citizens Advice Bureau a couple of years ago for advice and were told to not spend a penny of any savings as it will be needed for when one goes in to a care home and will probably get them a year to two years max. So they are now terrified to dip in to savings as it's kept only for that reason. They don't want to be separated and put in to hospices or homes so are imposing this on themselves - yes imposing being the operative word before the peanut gallery starts up again.

As a concerned daughter, of course I am going to ask in general what can be done.

A NURSE suggested my father gifts his savings to a family member to look after so he can get a discount on council tax.

I would have thought that you would be able to persuade your parents to part with some of their money to improve their lifestyle or do they take more notice of what a stranger says than their own daughter?