Private PCN Advice Issued to Hospital Staff...

strokebow1

Hi,

Loads of great advice here -especially on the newbie thread. Thanks to all contributors!

Just trying to understand at which stage of the game my particular case fits. I'll try and keep it succinct...

Where: Hospital
Creditor: Parking Solutions 24
Reason: Double Yellow Lines
Amount: £60 + £18 admin.
Why: My wife works at the hospital. Both staff car parks were full. So she parked on site road (on double yellows). She does have a hospital parking permit which is stuck on the windscreen which would have been noted by the issuer.
Time elapsed: The parking event took place on 21/04/15. She ignored the original notice which was on the windscreen (never told me). Now I have just received a notice to the registered keeper asking for the driver's info.
What has been done (by us): So far nothing. No appeals, nothing - just ignorance.

Just wondering what my next step should be now? Should I (the registered keeper) write to them... OR should my wife (employee at the hospital) write to them. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much

Fruitcake

strokebow1 wrote: »

Hi,

Loads of great advice here -especially on the newbie thread. Thanks to all contributors!

Just trying to understand at which stage of the game my particular case fits. I'll try and keep it succinct...

Where: Hospital
Creditor: Parking Solutions 24
Reason: Double Yellow Lines
Amount: £60 + £18 admin.
Why: My wife works at the hospital. Both staff car parks were full. So she parked on site road (on double yellows). She does have a hospital parking permit which is stuck on the windscreen which would have been noted by the issuer.
Time elapsed: The parking event took place on 21/04/15. She ignored the original notice which was on the windscreen (never told me). Now I have just received a notice to the registered keeper asking for the driver's info.
What has been done (by us): So far nothing. No appeals, nothing - just ignorance.

Just wondering what my next step should be now? Should I (the registered keeper) write to them... OR should my wife (employee at the hospital) write to them. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much

Yellow lines on private land are simply graffiti. I think they may even be copyrighted and therefore imitating them may be unlawful.


You should appeal as keeper using the template in the NEWBIES thread exactly as it is. Don't change a thing. Meanwhile complain to PALS/Hospital admin, Union Reps, Hospital management/CEO as a parallel activity, but don't miss the appeal deadline to the PPC.


Your wife most definitely should not contact the PPC (the driver never should except in certain specific situations which this one isn't.) Never 'phone a PPC and never reveal who was driving.

hoohoo

To avoid this happening again, she should get a statement from management detailing the procedures to follow for all staff if there are no parking spaces.

Should she
a) park on yellow lines
b) Wait until a space is available
c) Go home

strokebow1

Thanks both for very helpful comments.
Sorry for this complete n00b question. When you say,

You should appeal as keeper using the template in the NEWBIES thread exactly as it is.

Do you mean this specific one (?):

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
b) The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
c). There is no evidence that you have any interest in the land. I will complain to the landowner about your aggressive ticketing.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability.
e). I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty.

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Thanks again!

Umkomaas

Just confirm the date on, and the date you received the Notice to Keeper (NtK) please.

3 months have elapsed since 21/04/15 and keeper liability, prima facie, is out of the window. A slam dunk win at POPLA if you play this correctly.

strokebow1

Umkomaas wrote: »

Just confirm the date on, and the date you received the Notice to Keeper (NtK) please.

3 months have elapsed since 21/04/15 and keeper liability, prima facie, is out of the window. A slam dunk win at POPLA if you play this correctly.

It was received on Friday 17th July.
From the envelope it was sent 2nd class by Royal Mail.
They have written into the letter a "date of posting" which they claim as 13/07/2015.

Does this help? Do I have a case here?

Cheers!

strokebow1

I have copied exactly the newbie suggested letter but with specific amendments (in bold).

Do you think this is OK for me to send?

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.
Your ‘PCN’ letter which you sent via Royal Mail 2nd Class was delivered to my address on Friday 17th July 2015.

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
b) The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
c). There is no evidence that you have any interest in the land. I will complain to the landowner about your aggressive ticketing.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability.
e). I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty.
f). The Notice to Keeper arrived 88 days after the alleged event. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 requires that if you wish to hold the keeper liable in section 8 that it is served no earlier than 29 days and no later than 56 days of alleged event.

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Please advise. Many thanks to all!

Umkomaas

strokebow1 wrote: »

It was received on Friday 17th July.
From the envelope it was sent 2nd class by Royal Mail.
They have written into the letter a "date of posting" which they claim as 13/07/2015.

Does this help? Do I have a case here?

Cheers!

Thanks for confirmation.

They have up to 56 days to deliver the NtK to the registered keeper (RK). If they fail, they do not meet the requirements of PoFA 2012 to claim keeper liability and can only pursue the driver.

This will be one of your major appeal points at POPLA, but in order to get there you need to go through the process of sending them your initial appeal and receiving a (virtually guaranteed) rejection - with a POPLA code.

So use the initial appeal from the NEWBIES sticky (the one you've pasted above - provided you haven't altered or added to it in ANY way). You need to be very careful never to reveal the name of the driver, so never contact any PPC (or debt collector for that matter) by telephone; everything in writing!

HTH.

EDIT TO ADD - just looked at your addition to the initial appeal. Yep, that's okay. It puts them straight on notice that they have no claim on you the RK. Any PPC that understands this stuff would immediately cancel. Let's see if you get the numbnut response!

We say 'no amends/adds' as so many posters drift off on a flight of fancy, with lots of bits that that blow them out of the water like 'I didn't see the signs', 'I put the correct amount in the slot, but the ticket didn't print' etc ...... you get my drift!

strokebow1

Hi,

Since my last post I sent the response letter as advised to Parking Solutions 24. I received no response from them.

Now, I have since received last week a letter from UCS (Ultimate Customer Solutions) who claim to be acting on behalf of Parking Solutions 24 and say that "if we do not hear from you within 14 days our client has asked us to pass this account to our solicitors". It seems as if my letter was either never received or never considered but I do have proof of postage certificate from the post office (I posted 2nd class).

Can anyone advise as to what my next step(s) should be?

Thanks

bod1467

Ignore UCS completely.

Write/email PS24 asking why they have passed this to debt collectors without considering your appeal (for which you have proof of postage). If emailing, copy it to the BPA (addresses in the NEWBIES thread).

Also raise a specific complaint with the BPA about their member's unreasonable behaviour and breach of the Code of Practice.

Umkomaas

Complaint time to the BPA and DVLA that the PPC:

1. Sent out of time NtK yet still insists on pursuing the keeper.
2. Has failed to respond to your appeal (copy of appeal and proof of posting enclosed).
3. Has referred this to a debt collector when your appeal has not been responded to.

Email addresses for BPA and DVLA in post #6 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky - this particular section of the sticky gives general advice on making complaints.

Enclose copies of all documentation between you and the PPC.