Employer demanding training costs...

AntF

patman99 wrote: »

go bankrupt and add this debt to your bankruptcy. Cost to you £750, collected by them £0

It's an option but a sh+@ty one a that, it will affect your credit rating for 6 years I believe, plus in my opinion it's a cowards way out.

My old employer is taking a similar route, well being forced too by the tax office as he owes them a fortune, plus he is taking advantage of that as he knows myself and others who are owed money by him will have no chance getting a haring date for tribunal before his ship sinks. In turn we wont see a penny.

I think you should either pay what you owe, however them expecting it within 14 days is unreasonable especially if that was not written in the contract you signed, offer them a repayment plan or accept the debt, then contact StepChange (a debt management company) they will deal with the debt on your behalf and you pay them what you can afford each month after they go through your income/expenditure.

Alternatively, suck it up and work for them until the required date has passed where you no longer owe them.

FBaby

Your issue is that you didn't dispute the contract when it was finally given to you at the time, you just signed it. I really don't see you would have a leg to stand on when you agreed to the terms there and then. You could have stopped you studies then if you didn't agree, but you didn't because as you've said, the agreement still suited you then.

Undervalued

getmore4less wrote: »

Authorisation for deductions from wages cannot be retrospective.

employment act 13.1.5&6

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/part/II/crossheading/deductions-by-employer

It would be upto the employer to show prior authorization that complies with the law.
(note it does not allways require signature if contractual)

With the exception of this post from getmore4less the vast majority of "advice" offered in this thread is dreadful! Even then I disagree with the last sentence.

For training costs to be recoverable there must be a written agreement in place. This is unlike most other aspects of employment law where a contract is formed simply by turning up, working and getting paid.

The training fee agreement can be incorporated in your contract but, unlike virtually all other terms, would not be enforceable without your signed agreement. For this reason it is generally kept separate and still requires your positive assent.

As g4l points out it cannot in any case be retrospective so they would not be able to recover any training costs prior to you signing the agreement.

Even then the amount recovered must be reasonable and proportionate.

Finally, you have no specific right to pay anything that can lawfully be recovered over a period of time (unless the agreement give you such a right which is unlikely). They can deduct from your final months salary anything that is due right down to zero then invoice you for the rest.

Obviously if you can't or won't pay and they take you to court (and won) then you would be ordered to pay at a rate the court felt you could manage. For this reason most employers will negotiate some sort of deal.

patman99

In the current job marketplace, having a 'leave before x years have been completed, or pay back part/all of your training' would be an attractant to me.

As I said in my earlier post. Think of having to work off the training costs as being more like 'I have job security for the next x number of years'. In that time, you will gain extra skills that come with doing the job and applying your knowledge and training.

Jump ship now, and you may find that you don't make it through the probationary period at the new employer. What then?. On the dole when you could still have had a job.

AntF, my dad was in a similar situation a few years back (he's been retired 19 years). Knowing that the firm was about to be made insolvent and they wouldn't get paid, they loaded as much of the stock as they could into the company van, grabbed the V5 from the office and hid the whole lot where the employer could not find it.

If he wanted his stock back, he had to pay their wages. He actually did pay them, get the property back and then go insolvent.

FBaby

getmore4less wrote: »

Authorisation for deductions from wages cannot be retrospective.

employment act 13.1.5&6

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/part/II/crossheading/deductions-by-employer

It would be upto the employer to show prior authorization that complies with the law.
(note it does not allways require signature if contractual)

Confused about this as this relates to deduction of wages when so far, it would appear that the company has made a demand a payment, not a threat of deducting wages.

Looking at a page from a solicitor firm, they claim that :

There is no legislation specifically related to an employer seeking to recoup training costs; it is purely the training agreement or contract of employment that will set out your rights to recover costs. So, unfortunately, if you did not enter into a formal agreement with your employees before they started their training, or did not obtain express agreement from the employee before they left to deduct the monies, then you will not be able to claim back the money you invested in training your employees.

This would indicate that as OP DID sign the agreement that said that he would repay ALL the training costs, it might not be as straight forward as saying that he shouldn't be liable for the first 2 years, let alone the rest.

tomtontom

Undervalued wrote: »

With the exception of this post from getmore4less the vast majority of "advice" offered in this thread is dreadful! Even then I disagree with the last sentence.

For training costs to be recoverable there must be a written agreement in place. This is unlike most other aspects of employment law where a contract is formed simply by turning up, working and getting paid.

The training fee agreement can be incorporated in your contract but, unlike virtually all other terms, would not be enforceable without your signed agreement. For this reason it is generally kept separate and still requires your positive assent.

As g4l points out it cannot in any case be retrospective so they would not be able to recover any training costs prior to you signing the agreement.

Even then the amount recovered must be reasonable and proportionate.

Finally, you have no specific right to pay anything that can lawfully be recovered over a period of time (unless the agreement give you such a right which is unlikely). They can deduct from your final months salary anything that is due right down to zero then invoice you for the rest.

Obviously if you can't or won't pay and they take you to court (and won) then you would be ordered to pay at a rate the court felt you could manage. For this reason most employers will negotiate some sort of deal.

Do you have a reference for this please? I've seen you state it several times but can't find case law etc to support your assertion.

DandelionPatrol

tomtontom wrote: »

Do you have a reference for this please? I've seen you state it several times but can't find case law etc to support your assertion.

It could be statute, in which case it might be sufficiently clear that no employer has tried to make a case out of it.

tomtontom

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

It could be statute, in which case it might be sufficiently clear that no employer has tried to make a case out of it.

I'm not sure if you meant to state the obvious - in "case law etc" I'm sure UV knows I had given thought to relevant legislation.

Undervalued

tomtontom wrote: »

Do you have a reference for this please? I've seen you state it several times but can't find case law etc to support your assertion.

For example here are a couple of articles on the subject......

http://employment.laytons.com/contracts-of-employment/recovery-of-training-fees.asp

http://www.trainingzone.co.uk/topic/ask-expert-tied-just-how-beholden-employee

Also, this was regularly stated on here by SarEl before some of the idiots drove her away!

FBaby

So really, the bottom line is different solicitors will tell you different things because ultimately there is no legislation relating to this matter!

Good luck OP.