DMP & Mutual Support Thread - Part 11

Keezing

Argh American Express!

For 2 months I have been trying to get them to respond to my Holding Letter, Offer of Repayment and subsequent reminders and got nothing back other than notices of charges and threats.

I called them up today and the annoying person who kept talking over me before I could finish my point insisted that all they needed was the reference number from CAB and they would collect my repayments from CAB.

I kept trying to explain that CAB do not operate as an intermediary for DMPs, they have simply advised me to enter into a DMP and that I am self-administering the plan, but I was told I was wrong and didn't understand how DMPs work.

Eventually she got annoyed with me and said they would be sending my debt to a specialist firm and they will contact me to arrange repayments.

Fine!

neiljmuk

sourcrates wrote: »

Best practice is to with hold payment until the default notice drops on your doormat, then you are clear to carry on.

As far as I know Argos don't employ doorstep collectors, it's possible they could farm the job out to a DCA, but like most creditor threats, that's probebley all it is, a threat.

If anyone called you do not have to engage with them, they have no more power than next doors cat, so easy to deal with.

Nice one. Looks like one step away from being defaulted and I'm sure any DCA they pass it on to will send at least one letter first. If I'm defaulted I'm sure they will find be quite accommodating!


On another note, Lloyds have passed to OD on to Wescott to sort out without defaulting it. Any advice there? and also Lync Financial have an old BC debt that is not defaulted.

It says it's up to day, like proper green on the credit file with all the old BC data gone which is odd given I've not made a payment to them yet! Thoughts esp on why they are making settled payments with no bad markers on my file?

Do DCAs usually default you easier if they get the debt before the default.

Would then have to default me then give me some warning before taking a CCJ route?


Thanks in advance

January2015

Billy12345 wrote: »

Hi all

Just had a lovely letter from Santander stating they will stop their collections activitiy but that interest will be charged in line with the original loan agreement. :eek:

Does anyone have a standard type letter I can send to them asking them to freeze interest in accordance with the lending code. I'm sure I saw a great letter on here but I've looked all morning and cant find it (perhaps i had better pay a visit to specsavers lol)

Hi Billy

When I challenged interest on my debts The Lending Code was the relevant Code of Practice in place. However, The Lending Code was replaced in October 2016 with The Standards of Lending. You will need to quote the relevant bits of the new code/standards. I've listed below the bits of the new Standards that I think you will need to quote.

The Standards of Lending Practice 2016 says:

7. Firms should apply an appropriate level of forbearance, where, after having made contact with the customer, it is clear that this would be appropriate for their situation.


9. Firms should consider freezing or reducing interest and charges when a customer is in financial difficulty.

It's important to remember creditors do not have to freeze interest. This is most likely to happen when accounts are defaulted and passed on to debt collection agencies. That said, we were successful in getting all interest frozen on our 11 debts. We did have a long 18 month battle with BC, but were successful in getting interest refunded. What I'm trying to say is, if at first you don't succeed don't give up.

It's not much help now, but I've copied below the arguments I used when challening Helifax regarding interest and charges on a number of accounts we had with them (overdraft, loans, cards). It's not much help in that it quotes the old Lending Code and therefore should not be used with the sections of code I quoted, but it does give you an idea of how I formulated my arguments with the creditor.

Hope this is of some help.

January2015 wrote: »

Lending Code Section 224 states:

• Subscribers should consider reducing or stopping interest and charges when a customer evidences that they are in financial difficulties. Such reduction/suspension decision should be based upon an income and expenditure statement indicating that they are unable to make repayments sufficient to meet contractual terms. Where a customer is able to make only token payments, their debt should not increase as a result of interest and charges levied. The assessment should reflect the customer’s lack of ability to pay rather than the stage an account has reached in the arrears cycle or whether they are using free sources of debt advice. Where a firm declines to allow concessions, they should be prepared to explain why to the customer or their adviser if requested to do so.

The Lending Code states a token payment is "An offer of payment of a small amount, e.g. £1, made by a customer who has no surplus income available for their ‘non-priority’ creditors and whose circumstances have a realistic prospect of improving so that they will be able to resume full or increased payments".


My argument on this one has been that our DMP sees us through to retirement age and whilst we are making more than token £1 payments our payments are still not equivalent to the required amount for the account to be in order and therefore our payments still constitute a token payment (my logic being that anything less than the required minimum payment must be a token payment).

Section 225 states:

• It is inappropriate for interest and charges to continue to be taken where the result would be that the repayment period for the customer becomes excessive. In forming a judgement on what might be excessive, a subscriber should take into account the type of product and the individual circumstances of the borrower.

My argument on this one (the Hellifax OD) was that it was going to take more than 30 years to clear based on our token payments if they kept charging their daily fee. With no fees we could clear the debt by retirement age. I'm working on developing this argument into my complaint with BC re. interest charges. I need to be more awake when I do the figures, but if their interest is going to take us over the DMP period and into retirement then I think I would argue that makes the repayment period excessive - thinking cap needs to be firmly in place when I word my next missive to BC.

Section 227 states:

• Where possible, subscribers should have consistent policies for customers holding more than one product type in terms of charges and interest concessions.

My argument on this one was how can you agree our relationship has broken down and agree to default our OD but not our loans - you need to treat us consistently.

Edit: I should have said these were just the arguments I used based on my interpretation of bits of the Lending Code I thought applied to our individual circumstances and I do realise the arguments I made may not work for everyone (and indeed may not work for me with all of our creditors - but it did feel good to quote the code verbatim when some of them phoned us following our complaint letters - because different departments deal with complaints about different products even though it can be the same bank/creditor). I felt I knew more about it than the poor so and so's phoning me

January2015

Keezing wrote: »

Argh American Express!

For 2 months I have been trying to get them to respond to my Holding Letter, Offer of Repayment and subsequent reminders and got nothing back other than notices of charges and threats.

I called them up today and the annoying person who kept talking over me before I could finish my point insisted that all they needed was the reference number from CAB and they would collect my repayments from CAB.

I kept trying to explain that CAB do not operate as an intermediary for DMPs, they have simply advised me to enter into a DMP and that I am self-administering the plan, but I was told I was wrong and didn't understand how DMPs work.

Eventually she got annoyed with me and said they would be sending my debt to a specialist firm and they will contact me to arrange repayments.

Fine!

Hi Keezing

Creditors are supposed to treat you in the same way whether you operate your DMP through a third party or whether you choose to self-administered your plan. Obviously in both cases they are entitled to request an Income & Expenditure Statement.

We found when we went self managed that using the North East Derbyshire Citizens Advice Bureau (NEDCAB) online DMP self management form generated a NEDCAB reference number. We quoted this in all correspondence. It means absolutely nothing. We spoke to no-one at NEDCAB and they have nothing to do with our DMP but just having a magic NEDCAB number shut those creditors up. The operators/customer service agents in these creditor debt collection sections have no experience of what it is to go through NEDCAB and they think you are being advised and that reference numbers evidences that.

You don't need a CAB reference number, but if any creditor is daft enough to think you do, just generate one on the NEDCAB site. It's a nuisance you shouldn't have to go through, but sometimes it's worth it just to shut them up:rotfl:

Billy12345

January2015 wrote: »

Hi Billy

When I challenged interest on my debts The Lending Code was the relevant Code of Practice in place. However, The Lending Code was replaced in October 2016 with The Standards of Lending. You will need to quote the relevant bits of the new code/standards. I've listed below the bits of the new Standards that I think you will need to quote.

The Standards of Lending Practice 2016 says:

7. Firms should apply an appropriate level of forbearance, where, after having made contact with the customer, it is clear that this would be appropriate for their situation.


9. Firms should consider freezing or reducing interest and charges when a customer is in financial difficulty.

It's important to remember creditors do not have to freeze interest. This is most likely to happen when accounts are defaulted and passed on to debt collection agencies. That said, we were successful in getting all interest frozen on our 11 debts. We did have a long 18 month battle with BC, but were successful in getting interest refunded. What I'm trying to say is, if at first you don't succeed don't give up.

It's not much help now, but I've copied below the arguments I used when challening Helifax regarding interest and charges on a number of accounts we had with them (overdraft, loans, cards). It's not much help in that it quotes the old Lending Code and therefore should not be used with the sections of code I quoted, but it does give you an idea of how I formulated my arguments with the creditor.

Hope this is of some help.

Thanks January, my letter to Santander is now drafted and will be sent to them today. I note a lot of people seem to be having trouble with Barclaycard but when I confronted them they refunded my interest, late payment and over credit fees straight away. Lets see how long it lasts as no dobt they will try to add interest on again further down the line. :rotfl:

Goes to show that challenging really can be of benefit and does indeed work.

Keezing

Hey Jan,

I've included the NEDCAB reference on all of the communication and quoted it to the person on the phone.

They insisted that they would now collect me repayments from CAB.

I guess I need to call and speak to someone else!

January2015

Keezing wrote: »

Hey Jan,

I've included the NEDCAB reference on all of the communication and quoted it to the person on the phone.

They insisted that they would now collect me repayments from CAB.

I guess I need to call and speak to someone else!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

It is sooooo frustrating that predators do not train their customer service staff to know the rules, regulations, systems and processes of debt management plans.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

You can phone back, you can speak to someone else, but you are just as likely to get the same response. Good luck :beer:

sourcrates

neiljmuk wrote: »

Nice one. Looks like one step away from being defaulted and I'm sure any DCA they pass it on to will send at least one letter first. If I'm defaulted I'm sure they will find be quite accommodating!


On another note, Lloyds have passed to OD on to Wescott to sort out without defaulting it. Any advice there? and also Lync Financial have an old BC debt that is not defaulted.

It says it's up to day, like proper green on the credit file with all the old BC data gone which is odd given I've not made a payment to them yet! Thoughts esp on why they are making settled payments with no bad markers on my file?

Do DCAs usually default you easier if they get the debt before the default.

Would then have to default me then give me some warning before taking a CCJ route?


Thanks in advance

Wescot only mange debts now, they no longer buy them.

Treat wescot as you would the original creditor.

sourcrates

Keezing wrote: »

Argh American Express!

For 2 months I have been trying to get them to respond to my Holding Letter, Offer of Repayment and subsequent reminders and got nothing back other than notices of charges and threats.

I called them up today and the annoying person who kept talking over me before I could finish my point insisted that all they needed was the reference number from CAB and they would collect my repayments from CAB.

I kept trying to explain that CAB do not operate as an intermediary for DMPs, they have simply advised me to enter into a DMP and that I am self-administering the plan, but I was told I was wrong and didn't understand how DMPs work.

Eventually she got annoyed with me and said they would be sending my debt to a specialist firm and they will contact me to arrange repayments.

Fine!

That's why it's best to stay off the phone to these people.

Save yourself the hassle, and do everything in writing.

You always get the call handler that's a debt expert, it's like calling the doctors and getting the opinion of the receptionist !!!

Keezing

sourcrates wrote: »

That's why it's best to stay off the phone to these people.

Save yourself the hassle, and do everything in writing.

You always get the call handler that's a debt expert, it's like calling the doctors and getting the opinion of the receptionist !!!

That's fine, but when they have been completely ignoring my letters and piling on interest and charges, i'm left with no other option.

I even sent a complaint to their separate complaints address which has gone unanswered.

The person I spoke to on the phone had a record of all my letters and was able to read parts of them out to me, therefore they simply CHOSE to ignore me. I wouldn't be surprised if it's their current policy on dealing with DMP requests.