Property not registered with Land Registry

swindiff

This is not really a buying selling or renting related question, but it is property related so I thought this was the most appropriate forum.

My mother is 70 years old and lives in her house which has no mortgage. The house is a 1930's semi and was bought when new by my grandfather. When he died he left the house to my mum but for his wife (my mums stepmother) to live in it until she died. When my mum's stepmother passed away my mum moved into the house.

She has been offered a grant to get a new boiler fitted and they wanted to see that the deeds were in my mothers name. At this point she finds out they are still in my grandfathers name. I then call the land registry to see what records they have and the house has never been registered with them.

What are the implications of it not being registered. i assume the only proof of ownership are the deeds in my grandfathers name and the will currently held by the solicitor who administered my grandfathers estate.

We have had a quote to get this sorted
£300 legal fees
£10 ID Search
VAT on fees £62
Land charges and index map searches £10
Land registry fee £190
Total £572

Do these fee's seem reasonable?

Also my mum is sorting out her will and intends to do the same as my grandfather did. She remarried and so intends to leave the property to my 2 brothers and me but for her husband to stay in the property if she were to pass first.

Is it going to complicate things if we dont get these deeds and land registry issue sorted as £572 is a lot to pay out if its not totally necessary, although we may need to do that anyway to get the boiler grant.

Thanks

G_M

swindiff wrote: »

We have had a quote to get this sorted
£300 legal fees
£10 ID Search
VAT on fees £62
Land charges and index map searches £10
Land registry fee £190
Total £572

Do these fee's seem reasonable?

Also my mum is sorting out her will and intends to do the same as my grandfather did. She remarried and so intends to leave the property to my 2 brothers and me but for her husband to stay in the property if she were to pass first.

Is it going to complicate things if we dont get these deeds and land registry issue sorted as £572 is a lot to pay out if its not totally necessary, although we may need to do that anyway to get the boiler grant.

Thanks

It's not necessary. The Deeds prove ownership, along with the will etc.

The property will need to be registered when it next changes ownership.

You could choose to do a voluntary first registration now if you wish. No need for legal fees: do it yourself.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/first-application-registration-fr1


or use a solicitor. Shop around for a fixed fee:

http://www.bishopslaw.co.uk/site/private/private_client_conveyancing/voluntary_land_registration/

Whether you can get the boiler grant wthout registering depends on the grant provider. In theory as long as you can satisfy them of ownership (via the Deeds and Will) it should be fine. But if they are 'jobsworths' and insist on Land Registry Title you will have to choose. But since the value of a new free boiler far exceds the legal fees, it's a no brainer!

Personally I'd register. It protects against fraud. And against the risk of losing the paper Deeds. It will simplify any future sale. It's the way to go.

Register in your mum's name.

swindiff

When I spoke to the lady at the land registry, she said it was something that could be done without a solicitor, but she had worked for them for 28 years and recommended against it. Would it be cheaper to just get the deeds changed to my mothers name. I think this is required for the new boiler grant.

Thanks

swindiff

I am wondering why it was not done when it changed ownership when my grandfather died. Should it have then been registered in my mothers name. He died in 1970. Although my step-grandmother died in about 2000 so this would be when my mother took over the property.

G_M

I've updated my last post.....

terryw

I would consider a will to be the first task so that her wishes are carried out.

The property will have to be registered sooner or later and a voluntary registration attracts a lower fee (or did the last time I checked).

As regards the grant, as GM suggests, the current deeds with will should suffice but check this with the council.

DandelionPatrol

swindiff wrote: »

When I spoke to the lady at the land registry, she said it was something that could be done without a solicitor, but she had worked for them for 28 years and recommended against it. Would it be cheaper to just get the deeds changed to my mothers name. I think this is required for the new boiler grant.

Thanks

I am not sure that it is now possible to just change the deeds to your mother's name without registering at the Land Reg.

And even if you are able to do this, it just creates a longer paper trail for a solicitor to go through in establishing the title for registration when it is needed.

I suggest that if you need the deeds putting in your mother's name for the boiler grant, you go to first registration in her name straight away and be done with it.

G_M

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

I am not sure that it is now possible to just change the deeds to your mother's name without registering at the Land Reg.

Correct. Any change of ownership requires compulsory Registration with the LR.

swindiff

Hi G_M thanks for your help with this so far. I notice on the FR1 application for first registration form, it requires that you lodge the title deeds with the application. As the deeds are still in my grandfathers name and not my mothers will this cause problems? Would they need a copy of the will too or do we need to bite the bullet and get a solicitor to change the title deeds accordingly?

Cheers

TBagpuss

You will need to show the paper trail so yes, deeds, death certificate & will.

The fees you have been quoted are reasonable if you get a solicitor to do the work. You are not required to have one but it is advisable - also, I think you will need an ID1 form if you do it yourself - this is a form to verify the ID of the person going on to the deeds, and has to be signed by a solicitor or in person at the Land registry. Many solicitors will not complete the forms, or will not do so without opening a file and doing their own proper ID verification etc, so you may find that you don' save much my DIYing (unless you live close enough to the relevant land registry office to go in in person)

Riles about what type of change of ownership required First Registration have changed over time - if your granddad died in 1970 then at that time there was no obligation to do a first registration where someone had died, only where a property was sold (possibly not then - compulsory registration was done at different speeds in different counties, starting in 1925 - can't remember off hand when it became universal!)

G_M

TBagpuss wrote: »

You will need to show the paper trail so yes, deeds, death certificate & will.

You might also need the Grant of Probate of grandad's will.

The more documentation you send showing the legality of the ownership changes the less likely Land Registry query anything.

Whether you decide to pay a solictor, or save the legal costs and DIY, depends how confidant you feel to manage the process and deal with issues that arise.

Form ID1 is needed if you do it by post. If you submit the applcation in person at a LR office, you can get your ID verified by them at the same time.