Major works opposition: Freeholder issuing injunction

Savealittlebit

TBagpuss thank you for your advice. Anyone that can be constructive like this I really appreciate it. Massively. Especially on procedures because I have no idea. I haven't been given anything to date just this letter saying they are now going ahead to seek an injunction with the threat of another if I don't let them into my home on multiple occasions of their choosing.

I understand what you are saying and of course it is correct that everything is subjective. I'm reading things like Unison and NHS guidelines to try to get my head around it and it is so woolly and subjective I am shocked. if you raise your voice even slightly, speak in the third person, or repeat phrases it is a sign of impending 'non physical violence' and an example of 'threatening behaviour' is to fold your arms and/or take a step forward. I'm not sure what kind of violence it if is you end up on the street with a baby, they don't mention that.

But This is to all intents a public sector body too, (ridiculously one that will actually have to house me if I end up on the streets!!!) so similar internal rules probably apply, but if they do, I would have expected some sort of published procedure as these bodies recommend, a proper legal warning etc, cease and dissist or whatever it's called that I could have taken advice on. And potentially acted on.

Of course everyone has the right to be safe but they were never less than safe, its ridiculous for them to suggest otherwise. I have been dealing with these people for 13 years, if I was going to punch someone would I not have done it by long ago JOKING :-D like when there was water running down my walls whenever it rained and they wouldn't have it other than upstairs' bath was leaking :-D and 18 months later they brought me a bunch of flowers and said oops. The worst thing I ever said I would do was go to panorama! But my baby also has the right to be safe in a warm, secure, comfortable home.

I thought I could protest as long as I didn't say hateful things about a person or threaten them. Obviously not so Where is freedom of speech?

I am dumbfounded that something SO subjective could have such far-reaching legal implications for me - I guess I would always have believed, that if something is serious enough to have warranted legal action, it is serious enough to call the police, and of course the very thought of that in relation to something I've said or done is ridiculous to me in the extreme ( and it goes without saying there is no suggestion even from them that that was ever on the cards at all). Except it clearly doesn't go without saying after all.

I wish to God that I had said all of our dealing should be in writing from the outset. They refuse to send much information out because it is so called 'data protected' and simply must stay in their office otherwise of course I would have. The last four times I've had verbal contact with them twice have been public meetings which I've audio recorded and twice they've showed up at my door. I rarely instigate verbal contact.

But yes thank you I still have the emails and I can print them out. I believe (!) they're not threatening and they're not aggressive to any normal person. Sarcastic maybe. What I didn't show however was remorse I just brass necked it and said show me the proof that you have and they just obviously wanted me to beg. Without showing me the repercussions of how they'd react if I didn't beg, or telling me that the answer was to beg. Obviously I don't want to upset an innocent party and for that I do feel remorse but equally I feel completely innocent, and theres not a day that goes past where their actions don't affect my wellbeing!

I've just had a whole day from 8.30 am where they're drilling a foot a way from my front door and banging on my front door constantly and I have not said a word. Turn the other cheek, not one thing.

One issue that I find really galling is that there is no proper formal notice of intent i.e. formal warning. Theres one lady saying 'don't use unspecified 'language'' when my baby had no heating for a fortnight in the winter when I could have had it THE NEXT DAY if it wasn't for their jobsworthyness (sp, and I dunno, perhaps thats offensive). And then this chap saying they will pursue unnamed legal action without evidence of alleged incident and then pow - I have no verbal contact with them just me asking for clarification by email but unspecified injunction apparently winging my way due to continuing 'behaviour'. What?

I'm probably naive thinking good will out in the end - i don't think it works that way any more - but I must say it is a big wake up call to me that they have this power. If anyone's reading in a similar position OMG don't assume that feeling you are morally in the right gives you legal protection! You have no protection! In retrospect, assume the worst, especially if it is a local authority, you need to protect yourself! I have so little faith now. In writing I very much stick to pulling apart points of procedure, requesting facts and figures and the like, the odd freedom of information request, a bit of wannabe paxman esque banter. But the upshot is they can make me homeless and I've got to say thank you very much, I hope I'm being polite enough? you're ever such nice people, three bags full, would I like a court order to go with that, etc.

I don't even know what type of injunction is being threatened or what having an injunction against you means in legal terms. Does it have a limit of time? Does it last forever? Am I getting an ASBO ( if ASBOs even still exist)? If they're upset by language can they give me a list of words that upset them with salient contexts?, cos I clearly don't know? Can I say this is bl***y ridiculous or will that earn me a criminal record? Is there anything (apart from what's obviously named) that it stops me doing (like travelling etc), do I have to declare it? is it a criminal record? will it be made public? I have no idea.

I know there's not much I can do about overall costs now - assuming low interest rates (!!) its another £40 per month minimum for the next 25 years or £100 per month for the next ten years - I could be putting toward my child's education.

I know there are rules about billing more than £15k in an a 3 year timeframe but I also think they have craftily kept inside that - just - by making £3k of the overall spend go to private contractors within our own home, so it maybe doesn't count? As long as they don't overspend which lets just say is not unheard of in major works bills so far! But as they say, this will be the time when they don't. Of course!

I did try local universities for legal help but they are all on summer break now.

Maybe some lovely lawyer is reading this post and can offer advice :-D

Once again, thank you very much for reading.

Savealittlebit

thank you also to moneyistooshorttomention and eddy. I am reading your thoughts now :-D

catterlen

I don't really have any legal advice to add, except to say that if you do have universities close, what about contacting the law department - try googling the professors or teachers on the Internet for someone that specialises in disputes or conveyancing- and seeing if maybe they can offer some advice in writing or a free meeting in person with you? You could take all your printed emails, all your correspondence and the audio recordings to them and see what they say- perhaps write yourself a timeline with dates, what you had from the leaseholder, how you responded etc, so that they can clearly and easily get to grips with it.
Also, maybe try writing to a couple of local solicitors and asking if they will offer advice for a reduced/free price and explain your situation? I admit this a long shot but....

If the local paper are/were interested, are there any other private residents who have felt the same.
, and could you publicise the ongoing saga in the paper and ask for advice there?

I don't know if this is current. Enough info but seems to offer some good starting points?
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/leaseholders-do-your-homework-to-fight-back-7440872.html

Savealittlebit

moneyistooshorttomention yes - they took great delight in telling me they were being charged £1,000 for one electical switch and there was nothing they could do about it. Equally, I have friends (who have since moved) previously in almost identical flats who were charged £3,500 approx last year for similar works but I am being charged £9-10k - why? Because the freeholder has made it public that they will do these works at any price

Rosemary7391

I can't offer you any specific advice, but it might help you to go through emails, letters etc, print them off and file them so you can find them when required, and also to keep notes of any verbal conversations you end up having. That'll speed up progress at any meetings with people who can advise you, and might help you feel calmer about it all while you're waiting for things to go through. A set of brief summaries might also help, that just sticks to the facts of each situation, even though they're all interlinked, different advisors will know more or less about each situation.

moneyistooshorttomention

There must be other people in your position - I'd absolutely lay odds on it.

I'm thinking of the man I was talking to the other day for instance ITRW. He fights them back with solicitors - but I can appreciate this isn't something everyone can afford.

There must be some sort of support group somewhere out there on the Internet for people going through this sort of issue surely? In your position - I think I'd be giving Shelter a phonecall - because, if there is such a support group, then they must know about it and be able to forward you in the right direction.

EDIT: £1,000 for one electrical switch - yeh right.....Forgawdsake - I had to have someone in my (private) little house the other day to seek out a problem with my electrics and put it right and it took around a couple of hours and I paid him £60. £1,000 is taking the Michael bigtime.

ReadingTim

As mentioned above, the financial implications associated with almost any sort of work to an ex-local authority property (especially where the block/estate still has local authority tenants in situ) are far more serious than to properties built by the private sector - I'm sorry to hear you're learning this the hard way.

You don't mention exactly what the works are, so there are many points on which the LA could be challenged - necessity of works, cost of works, procurement of works, but to be successful, your argument needs to focus in a calm and logical manner on whether the LA followed the proper process - regardless of what you think of that process and its implications on you personally. From your lengthy, rambling and confrontational posts, it does not appear that you have done this, and whilst being an unemployed single parent may explain your attitude and responses, it does not excuse them. Your underlying argument seems to be "I can't afford this, it's not fair".

I suspect you have marked yourself out as a troublemaker by trying to be too clever, using irrelevant quasi-legal sounding terminology and making no attempt to comply with reasonable requests or engage in constructive dialogue with a view to arriving at a compromise. In response, they have thrown the book at you.

I'm sorry if this isn't the response you wanted to read, and I don’t think this is a battle you can or will “win”. You therefore need to concentrate on finding the funds to pay for said works, or moving house. Continuing on your current course of action is likely to end badly.

moneyistooshorttomention

I understand the point made above....but, as I can see just how easily someone could fall into this particular trap, its understandable that OP feels as she does.

From what I've seen - there just doesn't seem to be ANY warnings out there that it is NOT a good idea to buy these ex-public sector flats (ie because of the firms that busily "make hay while the sun shines" by overcharging one heck of a lot because its not individual householders paying).

It is a position that a lot of the unwary could fall into.

I would tend to agree with not pushing the "I cant afford this...its not fair" argument as I doubt anyone would take account of a "personal" argument.

However - where I think it might be worth "pushing" is at the fact that public sector/ex public sector housing has these HUGE rates charged for maintenance work on them by greedy private firms intent on making money at the taxpayers expense (and, incidentally, catching up people like OP in the process).

I strongly advocate ringing Shelter (who, I'm darn sure will have heard of this many times before) and, by now, I'm inclining towards ratcheting up a notch and thinking "Blow contacting a local councillor - go for the MP instead".

I do have to say - that the relevant political party that has got the MP position in this constituency "might" have an influence on just how helpful (or otherwise) they might be. I would, rather cynically, think OP would possibly do better if its a Conservative (rather than Labour Party) MP that she has for her constituency.

Just thinking of my own personal experience many many years back when Home-Owner Me (from generations of home-owners) had to ask for public sector housing instead - as I just couldn't manage to buy a home for myself as a poorly-paid single person. I had no help whatsoever from the first Councillor I contacted (ie a Labour Party one) - but the second one I contacted (ie a Conservative Party one) fully appreciated that I obviously couldn't be left trying to manage in the privately-rented sector and did give me the "helping hand" I needed to get allocated a public sector tenancy - and I went on from there.....

I'm no Conservative (at that point in time I was probably somewhere to the left of Karl Marx - but needs must) - but I did have to give credit where credit was due on that occasion.....

ReadingTim

Agreed - this is unlikely to be a unique problem, and organisations such as Shelter are likely to have encountered many similar occurrences. Local councillors/the local MP may also be able to lend a hand, as should the housing department/housing association, if the OP can mend fences and engage in a more constructive manner.

However, it seems that the time to object to or have influence on the necessity of the works and their procurement has passed - they are going to happen, or have started happening already. Therefore the focus of the conversation needs to be on a fair means of payment for said works (for example allowing payment over a 1 or 2 year period), given the amounts mentioned aren't the sort of sums everyone can lay their hands on quickly.

Savealittlebit

Thank you very much to those who have responded and especially to Moneystooshorttomention. I am speaking to someone at shelter who I hope may be able to help me, and whose assistance I am very grateful for (as I am yours).

For those who think this is all my doing, I disagree. It has gone from being a series of horrible events caused either by either lack of empathy/interest or ability in the organisation to what could be perhaps considered a full-on campaign against me. They already said they intend to proceed with an injunction against me if I speak out of turn,but no parameters given (a week later I have had no contact on this front, but its doing a great job of keeping me in anguish and a position of fear).

. Then they said they would take a second injunction out if I didn't grant them access at any arbitrary (multiple) times demanded by themselves now and in the future. This is regardless of work demands and other commitments so I have to rearrange whole weeks to accommodate them. Yet this morning was the second occasion I have waited in for them and they have no shown up at all! My whole weekend I have been fearing this visit then they don't show up/send a message/anything. I think this is wholly unacceptable behaviour. Previously I would have rung up to ask what's going on, but now the threat over my 'aggression' means that is not a sensible course of action. Even if they are deliberately trying to make me angry. But am I now to worry they will somehow deny all, say they were here (invisibly)and try to use it against me (the first time they didn't actually show up, they sent the threat saying if I stopped access again I would get the injunction....)

I don't think there is any excuse whatsoever from any quasi-governmental organisation (or at least it thinks it is) to threaten an injunction if I don't let them in on a specific date/time then not show up at all. it is mind-games, is all.