MSE News: Summer Budget 2015: Millions to face benefit cuts

Becles

FBaby wrote: »

Not when you only work 24 hours and certainly not as hard when one is a stay at home parent and can get on with all or most of the chores compared to two full-time working parents.

It's fair enough in cases like that when you've got one person who could work full time hours or a second person who can work additional hours and they can juggle the childcare between them.

I really feel for single parents who already work full time, as it isn't very easy for them to work additional hours.

StixUK

bloolagoon wrote: »

I don't really have a political agenda other than we let employers off too easily. Be that low wages, low contributions or whatever causes it. It means pensions are lower as not based on earnings and it means cont based are low as not earnings related. Employers will find any loophole to avoid tax, some counties seem to tax them per employee instead which IMO means you get more out of them. Maybe there should be allowances for start ups or small businesses but for many they can afford to pay not only better wages but more importantly better work benefits like 12 months sick pay, health costs, pension costs etc. I'm lucky I work in the public sector so have those but many large companies offer nothing much other than low wages propped up by tax payers.

For the avoidance of doubt.

I currently earn £15,000 and work full time. My wife is a stay at home parent. My tax code has been increased by the marriage allowance but then has decreased by 2500 because the company provides me a company car.

My WTC entitlement was £24 for the year and CTC was circa £11000. Council Tax Support is roughly £1 per week and housing benefit is roughly £20 per week.

Call it £28000 income in total including all benefits. I still have to pay all the necessary bills as obviously housing benefit doesn't include all of my rent.

Whatever you think, 28000/6 = £4666 Each to live on.

Make your own judgements. We will lose approx £75 per month as of April 2016, so we will receive roughly £27,100 or £4516 each.

If you wish to express it as a percentage we will receive just over 3% less income than we did last year.

Make your own judgement but that is the real situation whether or not you agree or disagree with it.

StixUK

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Why on earth would a single unemployed person spend £7 a week on clothes, much less £37 on food?

I don't come up with those figures but take the £7 out if you wish and reduce the food.

It still reads for a pretty !!!!!! lifestyle and these are the people who are generally the poorest in society.

StixUK

beecher2 wrote: »

Your manager has to make sure his team hits targets - I think you underestimate the role somewhat and I find it strange that you're jealous of his pay when it sounds like you may well take home more money than he does!

I'm not jealous. I think that it is wrong to say in a purely non-financial sense that he works 'harder' than me.

The financial system puts a value on a job in a supply and demand manner. Just because you have skills/education to do a job perceived as worth more money in society it doesn't mean that work harder than someone.

Pay is no indication of energy expended either physically or mentally.

StixUK

FBaby wrote: »

Not when you only work 24 hours and certainly not as hard when one is a stay at home parent and can get on with all or most of the chores compared to two full-time working parents.



You seem oblivious to the point that these are the people who have paid into the system so you have been able to claim benefits to support your 4 children. You know tax credits doesn't come from thin air?

Your problem is that by having 4 children, you are limiting your wife's ability to go to work two and provide for the family. If you'd had one, maybe even two, maybe she could now take a full-time job too, and then you would find that you are not that hard done by.

I am not oblivious to the taxpayers paying in and I suppose throughout this argument I am not trying to protect myself as I consider myself to be in an OK position.

But on the flip side I was raised in a single parent family, I was abused and my brother lived in the care system for his entire life pretty much. I was told that I was crap most of the time and everything I did could have been done better.

I found out around 5 years ago my mum (who I have never seen) is a habitual drug user and has lived no more than 30 miles away from me in my entire life.

I have come from nothing and the desire to be part of a family has burned inside of me for so long.

I am one of those children that you see in the NSPCC adverts, the ones you feel sorry for because they are victimless. I was beaten, bruised and was physically hurt and definitely mentally.

Yet I went to uni got a degree, met my wife 10 years ago and we are raising a family of four between us. I held down a job after finishing uni and earnt £55k in two years before being made redundant.

I always used to see the positive side of life but suffered badly in my teens with depression and addiction problems. I managed to stop smoking and gambling through willpower by the time I was 22. But my depression is still there. You may question whether or not depression is real but I'm on that long road and I have had hiccups.

My wife's upbringing is not exactly rosey either and similar in some aspects. I think this is why we come together as we can relate to each other.

I thank the tax credits system for giving me some of the things that people who are in better circumstances than me can achieve far easier tan I can.

The problem is that the criticism is hard to take as it makes you feel !!!! inside and this Tory government are attacking all the people that are at the more vulnerable scale whether it be stripping of benefits and tax credits or removal of the support services in society.

That is my !!!! and that doesn't even take into account the daily grind of life. The ironic thing is that I was happy with two kids and I was angry when my wife suggested that we have 3 of 4 but having never had a family I was always prone to being manipulated and I thought I was standing by my wife and family when the 3rd and 4th child came along.

I should have known better but I desire human affection and have a very low self esteem, I just want to be loved.

See, I think you will find that in most cases there is a more complex story behind the claimants.

I am not saying that you or anyone else doesn't have their own problems that is far from what I am trying to suggest by writing this. It just shows that not everyone in this situation is on the scrounge and it genuinely does help people have a better lifestyle and if some one earning money at the higher tax rates cannot be appreciative to that then I don't think they appreciate human difference.

High earners will always require less than what they put in and low earners will always require more than what they put in. It's the nature of the beast.

I would be more than happy to pay a higher tax rate if I earnt £100k but that ain't going to happen. I might get to the 40% tax rate by the end of my career but having come from the !!!! end of the stick I would have no issues or complaints paying that level of tax.

FBaby

I thank the tax credits system for giving me some of the things that people who are in better circumstances than me can achieve far easier tan I can.

I sympathise with your difficult background and the battle you had to face, but the benefit system is not there to compensate people for having had a difficult childhood. You are clearly intelligent and resilient enough to have manage to go to Uni, so you had the same opportunities than those who might have an easier childhood.

I have been thinking about this thread, and I can honestly say that all my middle class friends who get to enjoy a nice lifestyle, who have two or more children ALL have both parents working and for all but two both work full-time. Two of them have 4 children.

I can assure you that we too are envious of your circumstances, just not your income. I have always worked full-time, so yes, since I had my first child, my income has grown almost 3 times, which means that I am now quite comfortably off. However, what you don't see is the sacrifices that came with that, the main one being exhaustion and the feeling that I haven't spent as much quality time with my children.

The thing is that you seem to want it all, the 4 children (you are not the only one who was craving a large family), the time (that your family benefits from having only one parent working) and as a result the energy (as a result of extra time) and at the same time, the nice income from those who don't get the above so you can have the same material things than they get.

It's all give and take and about the choices we make. I could give up my job and enjoy a much less stressful and demanding life and better quality time with my children, but that would mean seriously reducing what we have been accustomed to. I have once asked my kids if they wished I didn't work full-time, their response was that no, that although they missed me not being around more, they are grateful for all the things they got to experience because of my income. But who knows, maybe as adults, they will resent it just like maybe your children will either thank you for ensuring their mum was at home for them, or resent you for the things they didn't get to enjoy like some of their friends might have.

Life is a gamble, but what is certain is that very few people get to have it all.

evenasus

StixUK wrote: »

I have 4 children and earn between 15,000 and 20,000 in the jobs that I get. I understand that my earning threshold before I lose tax credits completely is around £50k give or take.

StixUK wrote: »

My WTC entitlement was £24 for the year and CTC was circa £11000. Council Tax Support is roughly £1 per week and housing benefit is roughly £20 per week.

£11,000 a year. :eek:

I never realised people could receive so much from the state for having children.

beecher2

StixUK wrote: »

I'm not jealous. I think that it is wrong to say in a purely non-financial sense that he works 'harder' than me.

The financial system puts a value on a job in a supply and demand manner. Just because you have skills/education to do a job perceived as worth more money in society it doesn't mean that work harder than someone.

Pay is no indication of energy expended either physically or mentally.

I would personally never describe anyone as working any harder than anyone else. I hate the phrase 'hard working families' - I find it so insulting. The hardest I ever worked was when I worked as a cleaner - back breaking, exhausting work for very little pay. But pay isn't an indication of energy expended - it is, as you say, down to the value placed on a job. I am paid more as a qualified chartered librarian than I was as a cleaner because of my skillset and experience.

Your boss might not physically work harder, but he has the responsibility to make sure your workplace is running efficiently - this is what I don't think you get.

The more I think about it, the more I think this thread is a wind up to be honest.

missbiggles1

StixUK wrote: »

For the avoidance of doubt.

I currently earn £15,000 and work full time. My wife is a stay at home parent. My tax code has been increased by the marriage allowance but then has decreased by 2500 because the company provides me a company car.

My WTC entitlement was £24 for the year and CTC was circa £11000. Council Tax Support is roughly £1 per week and housing benefit is roughly £20 per week.

Call it £28000 income in total including all benefits. I still have to pay all the necessary bills as obviously housing benefit doesn't include all of my rent.

Whatever you think, 28000/6 = £4666 Each to live on.

Make your own judgements. We will lose approx £75 per month as of April 2016, so we will receive roughly £27,100 or £4516 each.

If you wish to express it as a percentage we will receive just over 3% less income than we did last year.

Make your own judgement but that is the real situation whether or not you agree or disagree with it.

You're not allowing for the fact that your benefits are paid net rather than gross. Therefore the £15,000 + you receive in benefits (you forgot the £60 pw CB) is equivalent to around £22,000 giving you an income of around £37,000 gross.

beecher2

missbiggles1 wrote: »

You're not allowing for the fact that your benefits are paid net rather than gross. Therefore the £15,000 + you receive in benefits (you forgot the £60 pw CB) is equivalent to around £22,000 giving you an income of around £37,000 gross.

Would a single person doing the same job earn any benefits through tax credits, or would he/she really be taking home less than half the pay?