Cannot commit to new 6 month term - LL reluctant to accept statutory periodic

mrginge

thesaint wrote: »

It's easy for me to say, but I would do nothing and let them take further action.



Glad you clarified. I now know it's safe to ignore anything you say, as you have no idea what you are talking about.

So you think that three months guaranteed rent, additional renewal costs and higher risk of zero notice is better than most probably 3 months rent, zero renewal costs and zero risk of no notice.

I think we can all see that your business acumen is a little lacking.

franklee

Jimmcwibb wrote: »

Argh, more rubbish!

I suppose we could just sign the 6 month and accept the cost of getting out of the contract.

Defending the S21 would be likely cheaper, the exposure would be the court fee which was 280 but may have gone up plus 100.00 ish solicitors fees. The LL will have to pay the fees upfront which should focus his mind and he runs the risk the fees aren't awarded against you. Defending the S21 is initially filling in a form and then if listed for a hearing, attending a hearing which you can do yourself.

The LL will also have to pay for void time and agent's fees for the change of tenants as well which may put him off too.

Jimmcwibb wrote: »

As for the S.21 validity. It was served on the same day as the renewal, and I made sure to date my signature. It's my feeling it probably isn't valid. But I don't want to test this, I just want the hassle over and done with ASAP.

The S21 isn't valid if it was served before the renewal started but I'm not clear what you mean here. When did the renewal start and when was the S21 served. If all the paperwork was given in advance then the S21 would be too early.

Getting out of the tenancy could be expensive if a replacement tenant isn't found right away. If the LL chooses to redecorate or something there could be a long void. Do not rely on the agent's promises go by the tenancy agreement.

A three month tenancy is allowed. The six months issue is just that the LL can't use the S21 within the initial six months but that's from the start of your occupation so already passed.

May I suggest you call Shelter. Have all the emails to hand. Shelter may write to the agent for you. I'm sure they will want to know about duff agent practises.

Also look at the agent's complaints procedure, they should be a member of a redress scheme. Complain they have no idea of the law and are misleading you (and your LL).

Plus if they are ARLA members I'd write to them too and ask they point the law out to the agent. They should be following the handbook of any body they are a member of.

While the LL has given odd instructions to the agent that may be based on the agent's recommendations, so contacting the LL may work.

Also if it's about the renewal fee you could offer to pay that to "renew" onto a periodic tenancy. Should not be necessary but maybe the cheapest option.

Pixie5740

Regardless of whether or not the landlord only wants to communicate via the letting agent (and you only have the letting agent's word for this), you have requested the landlord's contact details and legally the letting agent must provide these details to you.

I'm curious to know what difference it makes in the grand scheme of things if the landlord isn't currently insured for rent payments. Have you ever not paid your rent? Why kick up all this fuss for insurance the landlord probably doesn't need?

I'm surprised the landlord is making any money out of this property paying a letting agent and for rent guarantee insurance.

Which redress scheme is the letting agent signed up to?

franklee

Jimmcwibb wrote: »

Some have commented on me needing to "pull my finger out" and decide what I'm doing. If only it were that simple. I rely on short 2-3 year fixed contracts for work, and my next contract could be anywhere in the world. I am hopefully waiting to hear on an extension to my contract, of initially 3 months, and possibly more. I hope that explains the situation better.

Maybe your initial focus should be in shifting the agent's arbitrary 5.00pm on Friday 10th July 2015 deadline. How about you write back explaining that when your hear about your contract shortly (or say when you will hear) you will let them know if you can sign again or not but you hope to be in a position to sign then but you can pay the rent to cover the intervening period now (e.g. pay two or three months in advance).

Jimmcwibb

franklee wrote: »

The S21 isn't valid if it was served before the renewal started but I'm not clear what you mean here. When did the renewal start and when was the S21 served. If all the paperwork was given in advance then the S21 would be too early.

Thank you all for your comments, I'm digesting them.

Just to clarify the above. We received the S21 and the tenancy renewal contract in the same envelope, before the end of the previous term. The renewal was then signed some time later, perhaps a week into the next term. There was a box on the S21 for my signature, which I signed, and I dated it so that it had the same date as the date next to my signature on the tenancy renewal. Then both the contract and the S21 were returned to the agent.

franklee

Jimmcwibb wrote: »

Just to clarify the above. We received the S21 and the tenancy renewal contract in the same envelope, before the end of the previous term. The renewal was then signed some time later, perhaps a week into the next term. There was a box on the S21 for my signature, which I signed, and I dated it so that it had the same date as the date next to my signature on the tenancy renewal. Then both the contract and the S21 were returned to the agent.

The date of the service was the date it was deemed arrived with you. So the day after posting if first class post, same day if delivered by hand etc. So the S21 was served before the renewal started thus is technically invalid.

However did you date it after the renewal started? If so it may come down to a dispute that it was in the same envelope as the renewal agreement. The court forms ask for the date and proof of service which the LL should provide. The onus is on the LL to provide proof of service. You get the chance to fill in if you agree and date of service. However given the renewal and S21 are dated the same day I'd reckon your version would be believed. If it were me I'd defend based on your explanation. The defence form isn't hard to fill in if you understand the basics of how things work which I think you do. It comes with explanatory notes and is in plain English not legalese.

For next time would have been better if you'd dated the S21 on the date you receive it if before the end of the fixed term. If given both documents together sign and date the S21 before the tenancy agreement, the day before would be best if you have the time. Also keep the envelope and a note of what day it arrived.

I do not think you have any long term prospects of staying unless the landlord can be made to see his agent is a chump. So it's about getting your onward move delayed until you know where you need to be and minimising the overall moving costs by avoiding too much overlapping rent etc. balanced against the risk of having to pay the court fee.

Chances are your landlord would be appalled at his agent's behaviour if he could be contacted. If he had any sense he'd switch agent.

They will likely refuse to give you a reference but you can counter that by showing any new agent/LL that you were offered a renewal and the emails will show it wasn't your fault.

PS: I have defended against a S21 before when I was sure it was invalid as like you I needed an extra couple of months before finalising my onward move. When the LL got my defence form he withdrew his claim. Had it gone to a hearing it would have been in my local county court.

DandelionPatrol

Jimmcwibb wrote: »

Just to clarify the above. We received the S21 and the tenancy renewal contract in the same envelope, before the end of the previous term. The renewal was then signed some time later, perhaps a week into the next term. There was a box on the S21 for my signature, which I signed, and I dated it so that it had the same date as the date next to my signature on the tenancy renewal. Then both the contract and the S21 were returned to the agent.

Did you take a copy? If the standard form for a S21 was used, it should have the date of the agent's signature. If that is before you signed the AST agreement, it would be evidence that it is invalid

thesaint

DandelionPatrol wrote: »

Did you take a copy? If the standard form for a S21 was used, it should have the date of the agent's signature. If that is before you signed the AST agreement, it would be evidence that it is invalid

The date on the Sec 21 is irrelevant.
The date it is deemed served is what is important.

Jimmcwibb

This morning the agent actually sounds a little like a human being. I sent a carefully worded email explaining that we're not trying to argue with him but just exploring all the options. We said that we might consider signing a 6 month fixed term contract if it then progressed onto a contractual periodic tenancy, as that would avoid all of this mess next time. The reply was probably the most civil response I've had from him.

Dear XXX and XXXX

Thank you for your email; I do understand your position and fully accept that you wish to explore and consider your options. Your points are valid and far from being simply argumentative.

I have spoken to our client concerning your suggestion. Regretfully, her position still stands due to rent guarantee not being available to her on a rolling basis (whether statutory or contractual).

To help resolve this impasse, I am prepared to reduce the cost of the early release fee to £495 plus VAT, should you need to exercise this option. You will be only too aware of the shortage of rental property, and I am quite certain that should you ned to leave early, then a suitable replacement tenant could be found without too much difficulty.

I am sorry that we are unable to help you further with resolution of this matter, but I hope that our offer is a little more palatable.

I look forward to this matter being concluded no later than 5.00pm on Friday 10th July 2015.

Yours sincerely

I don't believe that she can't get rent guarantee insurance, but whatever. I think this compromise is probably the best we're going to get. I'm reasonably happy now.

franklee

If you take this do make sure you understand the total cost of early release. e.g. Is it £495 plus VAT + rent till the new tenant moves in + check out fee or is it £495 plus VAT all in for everything. Is the early release only at the LL's discretion or is it allowed automatically agreed upon request from you. In other words find out exactly what the early release fee covers. Ask for the total costs of early release and ending the tenancy in writing before you sign anything.

Also what was the early release fee before? When you said what was in the tenancy agreement it was rent until the new tenant moves in, was there a fee in there also?