PIP Assessment.

chilledguy11

Hi everyone. I'm new to this so could anyone help me out. I have recently claimed PIP and has my assessment with ATOS. I received a telephone call last Friday to inform me that my claim has been successful with the results of enhanced care and NO MOBILITY. I was kind of shocked since the woman at my assessment assured me that I should at least get standard. I have no physical problems but suffer from various mental health issues. Most days I need someone around to push me to face the day. I have some good days but they are very few and far between. After being in a 5 car pile up in Austria on a coach I have developed severe anxiety and depression. Most days if i hear a car door slam I jump. I feel like crying most of the day. When out in public alone I can burst into tears, panic - it feels like a mania feeling. I get confused while out, making much longer to get somewhere. I honestly feel trapped in my body. I am under a mental health team which are nearly at a diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder. This really helps because I know once something has been diagnosed I can get onto the right medication and start to take back my life. I'm not a scrounger I have worked since I was 16. I'm not 28, sometimes 2 jobs per day. I feel like I should appeal and try and get at least standard mobility. I wish I could just hop on a bus but I can't. Does anyone think I should appeal or has anyone got any stories?.

Thanks guys,

chilledguy11.

Mojisola

It does sound as if you fit the 'care' category rather needing help actually walking around.

chilledguy11

Hi Mojisola. Thanks for your quick reply. These are the PIP scoring system .

1. Planning and following journeys.
a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
c. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

2. Moving around.
a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 0 points.
b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points.
c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 8 points.
d. Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points.
e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points.
f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, –
(i) stand; or
(ii) move more than 1 metre. 12 points.

You need at least 8 to receive standard mobility. Even my assessment professional marked me down as d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points. She seen the distress I was in on my appointment date even with two family members. Somedays I don't feel human. They're must be more to life than this. I need to get better.

Mojisola

chilledguy11 wrote: »

You need at least 8 to receive standard mobility. Even my assessment professional marked me down as d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points. She seen the distress I was in on my appointment date even with two family members.

In that case, appeal.

oochiepoochie

No

OP- For the planning and following journeys activity, only descriptors B and E can apply to mental health problems. Descriptors C, D and F refer to cognitive or sensory issues. Are you able to leave the house alone at all or do you always need someone to prompt you? Do you have a diagnosis of agoraphobia?

rogerblack

Yes

oochiepoochie wrote: »

Descriptors C, D and F refer to cognitive or sensory issues.

Be very careful when reading.
D/F - 'Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid' specifically does not say what the person must be doing.

It does not say 'Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without an orientation aid such as another person, assistance dog or other aid'.

If the person is unable to follow the route reliably, safely (*)- as may indeed someone with mania or depression without another person - but another person would let them do this, they meet this descriptor.


c - 'cannot plan the route of a journey' does not refer to any reason why this is the case.
It is _NOT_ only winnable due to cognitive or sensory issues.
Severe depression, or mania, sensory issues are all relevant.
(*)
in addition is at least arguable that 'plan the route of a journey' must incorporate the real abilities of the claimant.
The whole PIP test is a test of how the claimants disabilities affect them in real life, it is not an academic exam.

If I am asked to plan a journey to my local town, and look up the soonest arriving bus, and do not take into account that on a normal day I will not be able to walk to the bus-stop, I have failed to do this activity.
This is because I have
... - will finish later.


*)
All of the descriptors on the test have to be able to be done repeatedly, reliably, safely, in no more than twice the time a non-disabled person would take.
And they need to meet this descriptor some of the time on more than half the days.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/5/part/4/crossheading/personal-independence-payment

(1)A person is entitled to the mobility component at the standard/enhanced rate if—
...
(b)the person's ability to carry out mobility activities is limited/severely limited by the person's physical or mental condition; and

There is no further language anywhere in the bill or amending legislation that says anything other than the descriptors must be used.
For those that explicitly state 'overwhelming distress' - then yes - if there is no overwhelming distress - even if you can't do the activity - you don't qualify for that descriptor. Unless there is exact phrasing saying why you can qualify for a descriptor, and explicitly limiting it to that, you can qualify for any reason as long as it is due to a 'physical or mental condition'.

In short - without more details - it is at least arguable you can appeal.

oochiepoochie

No

rogerblack, the interpretation of the legislation into DWP staff guidance is very clear. The planning and following journeys activity considers mental health, cognitive and sensory restrictions only. Anxiety arising because of a physical health problem that affects someone's ability to manage this activity may be considered but the inability to walk to a bus stop would not: only the moving around activity in the mobility section considers a person's physical ability to stand and then move. With the benefit of having seen the PIP case managers official guidance I am confident that the advice I have given in my original post is correct.

Studebacher_Hoch

chilledguy11, I went with a claimant to a tribunal a couple of weeks ago where they were awarded 'd. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid.' due to Bipolar Disorder. They decided the claimant couldn't manage the task to an acceptable standard most days, which is probably what you'd have to argue. [edit: Thinking about it, I think in that case it was also the fact that having to deal with working out the way to a new place also increased stress and anxiety levels, so they may have done it on safety, due to the adverse effect on the mental state].

The PIP assessment guide says d. is "unlikely to apply to mental or behavioural disorders", as opposed to cognitive/sensory impairment, but it doesn't say it can't apply.

Mind you, the PIP assessment guide also says for "e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant." you should be looking for people "who are unable to leave the home at all [their emphasis], even if they were to be accompanied. Typically such a person will not have left their home for several years and is extremely unlikely to attend appointments."

I don't think this guidance takes into account the majority of days and reliability rules (particularly the ability to be able to perform an activity repeatedly) and is a poor interpretation of the law, so their guidance for d. might not necessarily be very good either.

You may also be able to argue 'e' if your anxiety prevents you being able to go out 'as often as is reasonable to require' on a majority of days. If you do take it to tribunal I would try and get a letter from a mental health professional stating that, either (or both) descriptor d or e apply on a majority of days, and specify in the letter it's because you can't do the activity repeatedly/to an acceptable standard etc. (if the professional agrees of course).

Just bear in mind though, if you do take it to tribunal they'll look at the whole award again, so there is a risk of your daily living award going down. You won't be able to get them to just look at the mobility.

rogerblack

Yes

oochiepoochie wrote: »

With the benefit of having seen the PIP case managers official guidance I am confident that the advice I have given in my original post is correct.

The information you have given accurately reflects the DWP guidance.
It does not reflect the actual law.

The guidance is a good starting point to understand what the most pessimistic interpretation of the law - glossing over details may be.

TRAVELMAN_2

Yes

Hi Op....google 'fightback4justice'...they offer free advice on PIP appeals & even have a 'buddy' service for someone to come with you. Tribunal is the last stage...next bit is a 'mandatory reconsiderstion' which is direct with the DWP. Also google 'benefits advisor' for your local area. Local councils have free benefit advisors that could help you with the mandatory reconsideration...or tribunal if it gets that far. They will also have more of a 'handle' as it if there is a chance you could lose the benefit you were awarded initially if it goes to Tribunal. Good luck! Let us knoe how you get on. You also have a PM from me.

EDIT-pay no attention to the polls on here...make your own mind up AFTER getting proper advice.

densol_2

Yes

I've sent off my appeal to the tribunal. Nothing to loose really ( new claim for PIP ) .... I find it all very confusing and stressful especially as a result of my condition ( mental health ) but I'm going to attend and hope they see my difficulties.