Bank transfer payment error

gamerboy

I sold an an item over the phone on the 24th for £100 and the buyer paid by bank transfer, he got the item, he is with Lloyds, I am with NatWest. On the 26th, NatWest issued a letter to me, I got this letter this morning, to tell me that the sender informed Lloyds that he made the payment in error to my bank account and Lloyds have contacted NatWest.

NatWest said it is up to me whether to return the payment or not as they can't debit my account without my consent, they said if I do not want to return the payment, I don't have to send the letter back in which I am not sending back, I am not returning the payment because that money is rightfully mine because he transferred it to me and is now trying to get his money back after getting the item.

NatWest is giving it until 13th July, after that, they are going to tell Lloyds that I have not consented to return the payment, Lloyds will then contact the account holder to inform them of this. NatWest said the account holder at Lloyds may take an alternative course of action. However, he doesn't have my name as when he sent the payment, he typed the recipient name as 'NatWest', all he has is my account number and sort code, he has no email for me, he has no address for me, he has no telephone number for me as I lost my phone and had to get a new SIM card.

He has no communication with me at all. NatWest cannot provide my details to him or Lloyds due to data protection and the police will not get involved because it's a civil matter and there's no written communication of evidence between me and him as it was done over the phone so he can't do a small claims court or go to citizens advice or the financial ombudsman as he doesn't have my address and he will be unable to obtain it?

So what will happen?

Thanks

Money_maker

You seem so attentive to ensuring that he doesn't have your details by going as far as 'losing' your phone. Is there any reason why he would not be happy with his side of the deal? How did he acquire the item if you did not post it, send it by electronic means or hand it over?

If there is any way in which he lost out financially in the deal then man up and sort it out with him. If you think he's trying it on then forget it and move on. It shows considerably more trust on his part to send a bank transfer to an unknown third party, I do hope you have been honest and fair.

Ballard

As you say, NatWest aren't legally able to debit your account. I think (although I'm not 100%) that if the buying wished to take it further he can claim that he was a victim of fraud and try to obtain a court order to find your details from NatWest. You've made it very clear that this isn't the case and he'd spend a lot more than the £100 to take this route anyway.

I'd say with a fair amount of confidence that this is the last that you'll hear of this.

gamerboy

Money_maker wrote: »

You seem so attentive to ensuring that he doesn't have your details by going as far as 'losing' your phone. Is there any reason why he would not be happy with his side of the deal? How did he acquire the item if you did not post it, send it by electronic means or hand it over?

If there is any way in which he lost out financially in the deal then man up and sort it out with him. If you think he's trying it on then forget it and move on. It shows considerably more trust on his part to send a bank transfer to an unknown third party, I do hope you have been honest and fair.

I sold an Amazon gift card, he stayed on the phone whilst he redeemed it and he said it works and thanks very much. He is trying to pull a fast one by redeeming the code and getting the money back. He did not lose out, he is trying to make me lose out, in which that's not going to happen as I'm not losing money for something I sold. I have been honest and fair, its him who hasn't.

gamerboy

Ballard wrote: »

As you say, NatWest aren't legally able to debit your account. I think (although I'm not 100%) that if the buying wished to take it further he can claim that he was a victim of fraud and try to obtain a court order to find your details from NatWest. You've made it very clear that this isn't the case and he'd spend a lot more than the £100 to take this route anyway.

I'd say with a fair amount of confidence that this is the last that you'll hear of this.

Yes, NatWest cannot legally debit my account without my consent, which is 100% correct as they confirmed this to me on the phone. He can't take it further to the small claims court as he doesn't have my address and he can't get my address from NatWest due to data protection. NatWest would only give my address to the police but this is not a police matter, it's a civil matter, the woman who I spoke to from NatWest even said it's a civil matter.

Have you had any past experiences of this? People sending payments to wrong accounts etc?

Thanks

agrinnall

gamerboy wrote: »

Have you had any past experiences of this? People sending payments to wrong accounts etc?

But that's not what's happened is it? The money has gone to the right account and there has been no error, just an attempted scam. I'd just give him your details and let him take you to court, I'd give good odds that you never hear anything again.

If you want to see what experience people have had with payments that were made to the wrong account in error then just search the forum, there are hundreds, possibly even thousands, of threads about it.

gamerboy

agrinnall wrote: »

But that's not what's happened is it? The money has gone to the right account and there has been no error, just an attempted scam. I'd just give him your details and let him take you to court, I'd give good odds that you never hear anything again.

If you want to see what experience people have had with payments that were made to the wrong account in error then just search the forum, there are hundreds, possibly even thousands, of threads about it.

Not at all, yes he is trying to get the funds back which isn't happening. He still isn't getting my details, God knows who he could be, I live alone and I get scared so my address will be kept confidential by the bank. I hope I don't hear anything again. That was a savings account that I didn't need and I intended on closing it anyway but as I didn't have my current account details handy, I gave him those details to put the money in and that account is now currently in the process of being closed. I requested this today as I didn't get around to doing it last week.

bengal-stripe

Due to the fact that the OP is so desperately trying to hide his identity (phone got lost, receiving account gets closed) I'm beginning to wonder, whether the OP has some reason (more than just living alone) for all this hide and seek.

It is not necessarily a civil matter.

If the other party alleges fraud and reports it to the police, the police will have to investigate whether or not the case involves fraud. Probably the OP will be asked to make a statement or attend an interview before the police can come to a decision one way or the other.

jonesMUFCforever

I was going to post that if Nat West really believe their customer's story then they might pass on the details to the authorities just in case there is a pattern of criminal activity here.

What I don't understand is who rang who to initiate the deal and why if the buyer had £100 why would you ''buy'' a giftcard from a total stranger for the same amount?

gamerboy

bengal-stripe wrote: »

Due to the fact that the OP is so desperately trying to hide his identity (phone got lost, receiving account gets closed) I'm beginning to wonder, whether the OP has some reason (more than just living alone) for all this hide and seek.

It is not necessarily a civil matter.

If the other party alleges fraud and reports it to the police, the police will have to investigate whether or not the case involves fraud. Probably the OP will be asked to make a statement or attend an interview before the police can come to a decision one way or the other.

I am not trying to hide my identity at all, my phone did get lost, I was going to close the savings account anyway and couldn't get around to it. It clearly is a civil matter. They can do what they want but he has no written evidence that a sale was even made as we did it over the phone so it's his word against mine. The police will not get involved about this, this will be the end of it.

gamerboy

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

I was going to post that if Nat West really believe their customer's story then they might pass on the details to the authorities just in case there is a pattern of criminal activity here.

What I don't understand is who rang who to initiate the deal and why if the buyer had £100 why would you ''buy'' a giftcard from a total stranger for the same amount?

There is no criminal activity here, NatWest clearly said it's a civil matter and his word against mine, also there's no written evidence, no invoices etc, so there's no proof that a sale was made and he didn't receive item etc as it was done over the phone.

He rang my old number in which I lost, the gift card was worth £150 but obviously I had to sell it cheaper than that, therefore that's why I sold it for £100 as needed it gone and it was useless to me.

Also, why would NatWest inform the authorities when the account holder at Lloyds clearly said "payment was sent to wrong account" and NOT "fraudulent sale" or something like that.