July 2015 Higher costs to 08 numbers

thewinelake

This is a thread to discuss the irritation that some of us are feeling about the way in which Ofcom's incompetence and UK Telcos' greed will result in higher costs to call 08 numbers as of 01 July 2015.

My guess is that we'll see massive bill-shock (something Ofcom has generally tried to prevent).

08 numbers, despite rumours to the contrary, are not dead yet. Still many exemptions persist, and with ASA being largely responsible for administering adherence to legislation (I wonder what they did to deserve that gig!) there is much pain ahead.

Service charges will be higher than before in most cases.

Access charges will generally dwarf service charges.

In the old days, you could call 08 numbers from BT and get away with 5p/min max for 0844 and 10p/min max for 0871. Now you'll be lucky to get them for 20p/minute.

I've got my graphic for this...


...obviously based on the one here http://www.ukcalling.info/

If anyone knows of low cost access numbers via 1xxxx services or VOIP or the like, please share!

System

Completely understand the irritation, but I actually think Ofcom's decision on this is rather good.
Consumers will now be able (in principle) to see how huge the charges to 08x and 118 numbers are. In practice, it looks as though many users of 08x rip-off numbers are too stupid to have noticed that, from this Wednesday, they have to tell their customers how much they are being ripped off. There will be a lot of complaining to do. Attaboy, forum readers!
The cheap calls to 0844 from BT landlines were subsidised by all BT customers, and indefensible.
If you are with one of the mobile networks that has announced a penal access charge, and if you expect to need to continue to call 08x numbers, switch to a less grasping provider.

Ian011

The major effect is that organisations are moving to 03 numbers as they are unable to justify imposition of a Service Charge.

Businesses have clung on to usage of 084 numbers because their telecoms provider tells them these are cheap numbers to call. This has been the case only from a BT line and only because BT retail prices for calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers are capped by regulation. That regulation, the NTS Retail Condition, currently caps BT's effective access charge at zero pence per minute and ends on 1 July 2015.

More than 80% of calls originate from landlines other than BT and from mobiles. The removal of the NTS Retail Condition coupled with the requirement to declare the Service Charge removes the justification for retention of these numbers.

In the last couple of hours I have seen five new press releases issued by organisations who are now abandoning 084 numbers.

Rather than focus on the Access Charge, challenge organisations as to why they are imposing a Service Charge on callers. Once they change their number over to one without a Service Charge, e.g. one beginning 03, the call becomes inclusive on landlines and on mobiles.

Post sales helplines for retailers, traders and passenger transport companies must use 01, 02, 03 or 080 numbers. Report non-compliance to Trading Standards via the Citizen's Advice national Consumer Helpline on 0345 404 0506.

The migration of 0845 lines used by government departments and public services is almost complete. The vast majority now use 0300 and 0345 numbers.

Most banks have made the swap from 0845 to 0345. The insurance industry has started but has a long way to go. Given the fact that FCA regulation is still months away, consumer pressure is needed in the interim.

Some companies use 084 or 087 numbers for sales lines and pre-sales enquiry lines. From 1 July 2015 they have to make clear that they are charging you extra when you call them to buy something or discuss buying something. Consumers are free to buy elsewhere.

thewinelake

So it seems that one could argue that the telcos are doing Ofcom's dirty work for them - by punishing customers who call 08 numbers in the hope that they'll in turn punish their suppliers.

At least the telcos are being well paid for this.

Still seems a very clumsy way to achieve it!

zagfles

YoungNick wrote: »

Completely understand the irritation, but I actually think Ofcom's decision on this is rather good.
Consumers will now be able (in principle) to see how huge the charges to 08x and 118 numbers are. In practice, it looks as though many users of 08x rip-off numbers are too stupid to have noticed that, from this Wednesday, they have to tell their customers how much they are being ripped off.

But that's the point. They don't have to tell them. Users of eg an 0844 number with a 1p/min service charge just needs to tell their callers something like "calls cost 1p/min plus your phone company's access charge".

All that will stick is the 1p/min. Doesn't sound much, does it? "Access charge" sounds a nominal add on, or a connection charge, ie a one-off charge per call. Not something that can cost 45p/min, ie 45 times the declared "service charge"!!

The main rip-off with 084/087 numbers isn't the service charge. It's the access charge. No longer will adverts warn that "...calls from mobiles will cost considerably more". People will be misled. This isn't clearer pricing. It's dearer pricing (in general) and misleading pricing.

A 20 min call that caller might expect from the advert to cost 20p plus a bit for the access charge could cost over £9 :eek:

Ian011

For most providers, the cost of calling 084 and 087 numbers is currently buried within incomprehensible tariff sheets running to hundreds of pages, making it almost impossible to look up the price.

Need to know how much it costs to call a number starting 0844 477?
Open a huge PDF and scan through hundreds of pages to find out that it is tariff code g6.
Open a different PDF and scan through dozens of pages to find out the price for a g6 call.
Look through the footnotes to find out if there is also a connection fee.

From 1 July 2015, landline and mobile providers have to declare several things prominently in their retail price lists.

These include,
the cost of calling 01, 02 and 03 numbers and any exceptions,
the cost of calling ordinary-looking mobile numbers and any exceptions,
the cost of calling personal 070 numbers, and
the Access Charge for calling 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers.
Those four things cover almost all the numbers.

Elsewhere, there will be listings for 080, 116, 0500, 055, 056, 076, 101, 105, 111, 112/999, 123, etc.

Once you know the Access Charge for your landline or mobile provider, simply add it to the Service Charge that is declared by the organisation you are calling.

zagfles

thewinelake wrote: »

So it seems that one could argue that the telcos are doing Ofcom's dirty work for them - by punishing customers who call 08 numbers in the hope that they'll in turn punish their suppliers.

At least the telcos are being well paid for this.

Still seems a very clumsy way to achieve it!

It's a completely brain dead way to achieve it. It really is mind-numbingly simple. 03 calls are treated just like normal numbers, included in packages etc, so !!!!!! not do the same with 08/09 numbers, with the only difference being the declared "service charge"?

Why would it cost more to terminate an 08/09 number than an 03 number? The only difference is the service charge, so that should be the only difference in cost between calling an 084/087 number and an 03 number.

If there's a cost to the telco of collecting the service charge, or a risk of bad debt etc, do what credit card companies do. Let the telco take a % of the service charge to pay for the cost of collection. Credit card companies usually take 2% or so. The consumer sees the total price, if something costs £100 they don't care that £98 goes to the reatiler and £2 goes to the bank. They just see the total, £100

There are lots of genuine reasons to use numbers where the caller pays for a service, such as callthroughs for international calls, such as information lines. Even sales lines where the company wants to encourage internet sales and so wants callers who place orders by phone to pay for the service they're getting from the phone operator instead of forcing those who buy on the internet to subsidise them.

International callthroughs will likely be completely killed by this dog's dinner. Well done Ofcom. Now, rather than just being able to dial a number, you'll probably have to pay for credit in some way, much more hassle, and if the callthrough doesn't work (as they quite often don't) you'll likely lose a tenner or so instead of just a few pence.

Ian011

Usage of international dial through through providers was only really viable when called from a BT landline. What has brought that to an end is not the unbundled tariff but the removal of the NTS Retail Condition which was imposed solely on BT.

Most dial through providers have offered alternative 020, 03 or 080 numbers for those who are using something other than a BT line. BT customers now also need to look at those options.

zagfles

Ian011 wrote: »

Usage of international dial through through providers was only really viable when called from a BT landline.

Rubbish. I've used callthroughs from my TalkTalk landline and they're considerably cheaper than dialing international numbers direct.

thewinelake

Ian011 wrote: »

For most providers, the cost of calling 084 and 087 numbers is currently buried within incomprehensible tariff sheets running to hundreds of pages, making it almost impossible to look up the price.

Slightly wondering if you're missing the point here, Ian!
You don't work for Ofcom, do you?

Ian011

You might think I am missing the point. I think you're missing the bigger picture.

This isn't just about clarity for callers, it's about wresting control of this market away from BT (though Ofcom have slipped up by allowing BT to retain inclusive calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers) and requiring users of these numbers to justify their usage. Most cannot.