Self-print train tickets - changes/refunds

Sago48

A few days ago I booked advance tickets for a Virgin journey in August and inadvertently booked for the wrong day (Fri 31 July rather than Mon 3 August). This happened because I was booking a series of tickets, used the 'book another journey' option and forgot to change the travel date. I realised this pretty quickly and maybe 30 mins later rang Virgin (though I think I was speaking to Trainline, based on previous experience). I asked to transfer the tickets to the same train on 3 Aug but was told that as I'd selected e-ticket I'd lost my money. And was then asked if I'd like to book the same journey for the Mon - the correct day.

We've now booked a rather cheaper journey on 3 Aug but are still £50 odd out of pocket.

I've now seen the 'rules' about e-tickets on the Virgin site - I hadn't noticed before that.

Virgin seem to treat their rules as the only option, but I'm not so sure, and I'm wondering if anyone has tried to get a train company to change their decision on this, and if so what procedures or arguments you've used?

Many thanks

wealdroam

Sago48 wrote: »

A few days ago I booked advance tickets for a Virgin journey in August and inadvertently booked for the wrong day (Fri 31 July rather than Mon 3 August). This happened because I was booking a series of tickets, used the 'book another journey' option and forgot to change the travel date. I realised this pretty quickly and maybe 30 mins later rang Virgin (though I think I was speaking to Trainline, based on previous experience). I asked to transfer the tickets to the same train on 3 Aug but was told that as I'd selected e-ticket I'd lost my money. And was then asked if I'd like to book the same journey for the Mon - the correct day.

We've now booked a rather cheaper journey on 3 Aug but are still £50 odd out of pocket.

I've now seen the 'rules' about e-tickets on the Virgin site - I hadn't noticed before that.

Virgin seem to treat their rules as the only option, but I'm not so sure, and I'm wondering if anyone has tried to get a train company to change their decision on this, and if so what procedures or arguments you've used?

Many thanks

I am sorry to say that Virgin's rules are the only option in this circumstance.

E-tickets offer no benefit to the consumer. All they offer are extra restrictions.

Sago48

Thanks for that. I'll never use an e-ticket again of course. I see that Virgin - and all the others - says there's no choice but to lose my money. Very good for them of course - I have to book twice. But reasonable?

So I'm now travelling with Virgin to Preston on Friday 31st at the same time as I'm travelling to Berwick. Quite a feat. On Mon 3 Aug - the date I originally meant to book for Berwick - I'm now travelling there with another ticket (presumably after going there Friday but not coming back). Tickets require my ID so it has to be me. So I can't give it to someone else, even though it's mine and Virgin don't want it back under any circumstances. It's absurd of course, but that's not really my point.

This isn't about transfers or refunds. It's about booking the wrong date in the first place, and telling Virgin pretty quickly. In the Nat Conds it says check the tickets and if the details aren't correct contact the seller and so on. The Conditions barely deal with online, but I'd have thought I did follow this procedure. It doesn't say the mistake has to be Virgin's. It was mine, but does this matter?

Anyone else got experience of this?

Thanks.

wealdroam

Sago48 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I'll never use an e-ticket again of course. I see that Virgin - and all the others - says there's no choice but to lose my money. Very good for them of course - I have to book twice. But reasonable?

So I'm now travelling with Virgin to Preston on Friday 31st at the same time as I'm travelling to Berwick. Quite a feat. On Mon 3 Aug - the date I originally meant to book for Berwick - I'm now travelling there with another ticket (presumably after going there Friday but not coming back). Tickets require my ID so it has to be me. So I can't give it to someone else, even though it's mine and Virgin don't want it back under any circumstances. It's absurd of course, but that's not really my point.

This isn't about transfers or refunds. It's about booking the wrong date in the first place, and telling Virgin pretty quickly. In the Nat Conds it says check the tickets and if the details aren't correct contact the seller and so on. The Conditions barely deal with online, but I'd have thought I did follow this procedure. It doesn't say the mistake has to be Virgin's. It was mine, but does this matter?

Anyone else got experience of this?

Thanks.

Like most things in life, there is usually a cost associated with a mistake.

Did you know that if you go into a shop and buy the wrong thing, you have no statutory right to return, even two minutes later, and receive a refund? Of course in that situation most shopkeepers would accept the return, but for an easily reproducible piece of electronic data??

yorkie2

Sago48 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I'll never use an e-ticket again of course..

I agree. I know of many people who have been in a similar position to you and said the same thing.

I founded a busy forum which is dedicated to railway ticketing, and this crops up every so often, and I post something like this...:

yorkie wrote: »

I won't touch them though because I don't like the loss of rights, for example you need to bring some form of ID, and you also may not be able to change the ticket if you have a change of travel plans. Several people have had bad experiences and said they'll never use them again

...but some people disagree saying they will never get ill, no family member will ever get ill, and nothing will ever happen to make them change travel plans. (Lucky them!)

I will continue to try to spread the word, but unfortunately many more people will have their rights eroded as it's impossible to warn everyone, and even if we could warn everyone, they don't all listen.

pendragon_arther

You could try appealing through the Rail Passenger's Committee http://www.cylex-uk.co.uk/reviews/viewcompanywebsite.aspx?firmaName=rail-passengers-committee-western-england&companyId=14567710

I'm not sure if they still provide a service like this but some years ago successfully appealed to South West Trains on my behalf on another matter and I got credited (not refunded) with vouchers.

Kernel_Sanders

wealdroam wrote: »

E-tickets offer no benefit to the consumer. All they offer are extra restrictions.

Isn't it the case for any advance fare booked online? When I book advance tickets with EMT (which I pick up at the station) I am warned that there are no available refunds for them.

wealdroam

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

Isn't it the case for any advance fare booked online? When I book advance tickets with EMT (which I pick up at the station) I am warned that there are no available refunds for them.

Yes, that is the case with any Advance Single.

It is not the case for most other ticket types, like Off Peak or Anytime tickets.

So if purchasing anything other than an Advance Single, the potential traveller is adding an unnecessary restriction by buying as an e-ticket or print at home ticket.

yorkie2

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

Isn't it the case for any advance fare booked online?

The OP asked to change the ticket. Fares bought on-line can be changed.

Even Advance fares can be changed, subject to availability and a £10 admin fee!

Virgin have added an additional restriction to their e-tickets.

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

When I book advance tickets with EMT (which I pick up at the station) I am warned that there are no available refunds for them.

A change is different to a refund.

Sago48

Thanks to all who've posted helpful suggestions. For those tried to help out but also for those who thought it was a lost cause or that I was the author of my own misfortune - some less polite than others - please read on.

I don't think the e-ticket rules are 'reasonable' - that’s a matter of opinion I suppose. I didn’t know about those rules when I booked. I do now and I'll never use e-tickets again.

But the argument I put to Virgin was not around their e-ticket ‘rules’, but rather that they had a duty to act reasonably. I also assumed that the e-ticket rules were not aimed at the online date of travel error I'd made. I see that someone posted that if you make a mistake in law that's it, but that’s not always so. I took the view that I should be ‘allowed’ to make a factual mistake and not be penalised.

The Conditions of Carriage advise examining the tickets immediately after purchase and drawing any errors to the seller's attention asap. This I had done on the phone more or less straight away, but my request to correct the error was rejected then. The Conditions don’t specify who made the error.

So I emailed Virgin asking for my money back on the grounds that I'd made a mistake in booking the wrong date, that this was not a ticket transfer request, and so I should have I have my money back.

I've now received a full refund on the e-tickets. It's important to say that I'd booked other journeys to replace the 'mistaken' ones so no real doubt that I'm genuine. I have also been sent, under a separate cover, a voucher for £50, and an apology - goodwill gestures for the trouble I've had. Virgin took the view, rightly I think, that an online purchase is inherently less certain than buying at a ticket office, and acted accordingly. I’m grateful - well done Virgin.

My original question to the forum was does anyone know of or has anyone tried to find a way to get round the apparent 'rule' that there is nothing to be done with an e-ticket. I’ve now answered that at least for my case.

So don't assume you'll fail, be polite and clear, assume the company is well-intentioned, and you never know.

yorkie2

This is good to hear, and not unexpected, as Virgin often hand out around £50 to people who have had a bad experience. So it's well worth a go if anyone else is in a similar position.

However I suspect Virgin will not change their conditions to be more reasonable, so future passengers will still be denied the rights they would have held with a paper ticket. Those passengers then need to escalate the matter and grovel to get a £50 goodwill gesture.

So, yes well done Virgin's Customer Relations department, but not well done to Virgin's fares and ticketing department who continue to set unfair and unreasonable terms and conditions.