Car and deprivation of capital

baza52

Ames wrote: »

Hi, I know this has come up before but the most recent one seemed to be a troll post.
QUOTE]



I hope you don't mean the thread I started. Ill be watching the replies you get here as I am in a very similar position

FBaby

Surely that's completely reasonable. Considering you get a brand new car on motability, how can it be excessive to buy yourself a second hand car, even if a nice one. There has to be a point where they need to chase those who are truly abusing the system, not wasting their time with deciding if a second hand car is deprivation of capital.

Studebacher_Hoch

I'm on Income Support, Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit, and Severe Disablement Allowance (I think the latter isn't means tested, but it can't be long now till I'm moved to ESA which will be).

When you're transferred from SDA to ESA you should be placed on contributions based ESA (c-ESA) initially. This will be £102/£109 per week depending on if you're placed in the work group/support group.

This also won't be means-tested (though it would be reduced by any pension you get over £85 pw). If you're put in the ESA work group the C-ESA has a one year time limit and then you'll have to be assessed for income-related ESA, which it sounds like you won't qualify for (technically you should also be assessed for IR when you transfer over but people often aren't).

If you're placed in the support group there's no time limit on the C-ESA so you'll continue to get paid it as long as you're in the support group. If you're subsequently moved to the work group your 1 year time limit would start when you move.

rogerblack

Studebacher_Hoch wrote: »

When you're transferred from SDA to ESA you should be placed on contributions based ESA (c-ESA) initially.

Err - SDA is income based isn't it?
IB would be the contributory benefit.
If on SDA, migration would be over to IR-ESA.

GirlFromMars_2

Ames wrote: »

I thought about doing that, but I guess that as I won't be on benefits at the point of buying the car then I won't be able to get a decision.

For general spending I'm just going to draw the same amount every month that I would have been entitled to in benefits. Surely then nothing can be considered deprivation and I won't have to keep grocery receipts!

I received DOC decisions from both the DWP and LA before I was claiming IR benefits, so I'm sure they would be able to give you a written answer if you choose. (I was on ESA-C at the time, but had no claim with the Local Authority at all).

Given you are currently entitled to a motability car, I cannot think a reasonable decision maker would be upset with you buying a second hand car instead, especially if it is more cost effective & secure (PIP!) in the long run.

Ames

FBaby wrote: »

Surely that's completely reasonable. Considering you get a brand new car on motability, how can it be excessive to buy yourself a second hand car, even if a nice one. There has to be a point where they need to chase those who are truly abusing the system, not wasting their time with deciding if a second hand car is deprivation of capital.

You'd think so, but as RogerBlack says there's no rules or even guidance on the issue, and different decision makers make different decisions.

GirlFromMars wrote: »

I received DOC decisions from both the DWP and LA before I was claiming IR benefits, so I'm sure they would be able to give you a written answer if you choose. (I was on ESA-C at the time, but had no claim with the Local Authority at all).

Given you are currently entitled to a motability car, I cannot think a reasonable decision maker would be upset with you buying a second hand car instead, especially if it is more cost effective & secure (PIP!) in the long run.

Thanks. I probably don't have enough time to get a decision before I'd have to order a new motability car (in the next few weeks).

There does seem to be a general consensus that a second hand car is fine, it's just the amount. 6k doesn't seem to be too outrageous (unlike the previous poster who wanted to spend two and a half that amount).

Ames

Studebacher_Hoch wrote: »

When you're transferred from SDA to ESA you should be placed on contributions based ESA (c-ESA) initially. This will be £102/£109 per week depending on if you're placed in the work group/support group.

This also won't be means-tested (though it would be reduced by any pension you get over £85 pw). If you're put in the ESA work group the C-ESA has a one year time limit and then you'll have to be assessed for income-related ESA, which it sounds like you won't qualify for (technically you should also be assessed for IR when you transfer over but people often aren't).

If you're placed in the support group there's no time limit on the C-ESA so you'll continue to get paid it as long as you're in the support group. If you're subsequently moved to the work group your 1 year time limit would start when you move.

rogerblack wrote: »

Err - SDA is income based isn't it?
IB would be the contributory benefit.
If on SDA, migration would be over to IR-ESA.

I didn't think SDA was income based.

But I also thought that I wouldn't be able to claim CB ESA because of not having contributions - I thought that NI credits from being on benefits only counted towards the pension, not other benefits? Or is there some transitional protection?

Although it could all change again in a couple of weeks when we have the budget.

missbiggles1

If you're used to driving a new car, I'm sure that £6.5k for a second hand one seems quite reasonable. However, just to put an alternative point of view, I think this is quite a large amount to pay for a small car which is going to be used primarily for short trips around the city.

I don't know what decision a DM might make but they could well take my point of view that £6.5 k is too much.

GirlFromMars_2

Ames wrote: »

You'd think so, but as RogerBlack says there's no rules or even guidance on the issue, and different decision makers make different decisions.



Thanks. I probably don't have enough time to get a decision before I'd have to order a new motability car (in the next few weeks).

There does seem to be a general consensus that a second hand car is fine, it's just the amount. 6k doesn't seem to be too outrageous (unlike the previous poster who wanted to spend two and a half that amount).

I got a Local Authority DOC Decision overnight via email, and a DWP DOC Decision took a week.

I was pretty panicked at the time, as I was at the point of putting in offers on flats when I was told about DOC, so the they may have been kind and shortened the turn around time as a result, but they were both very quick. (In case anyone doesn't know already, buying a home to live in is not Deprivation of Capital.)

So far as the £6K car goes, I guess it depends on what you are used to and what you use the car for. I cannot imagine the Motability car you've been getting every three years has a sticker price of less than £6K, so you're probably used to something that costs that at the very least. You also have to factor in reliability, as you are entirely reliant on your car for mobility, you will probably be prepared to pay more than someone who has more options. And at the moment if you are in receipt of HRM you get nearly £3000 per year towards transport costs.

Ames

That's my point - a motability car costs nearly 9k over three years with nothing to show at the end. I'd like to get a car which will last me around a decade for about 6k. To me the maths make sense, but I'd like a range of views before I make a decision.

The difference of course being that a motobility car is paid from my income during the three years, buying a car would be on top of my income.

I've been used to new cars for 8 years, but had bangers before that. It's not the 'newness' that I'm bothered about, more the reliability and longevity. I can do without fancy extras, but I don't want something that's going to disappear for a week or two a year at MOT time having lots of work done to it.