PCN and care hire

DaveCC

Hi all,

I have read a lot of interesting things posted by other members, and I am looking for a bit of help. I rented a car in Plymouth early May with Hertz for the weekend. Everything went according to plans until my debit card was charged 102GBP a few weeks after I returned the car. I contacted them and they told me that was because of a PCN they have paid for me (60GBP for the "ticket" and 42GBP for their admin fee). I had a look at my rental agreement and the T&Cs regarding fines and tickets are as follow:

14 - ROAD TOLLS, PARKING FINES AND TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS
14.1 - You are fully responsible for all road tolls and any fines or other consequences of the violation of traffic regulations (including congestion charges), parking orders or prohibitions, or any other laws or regulations, during the rental.
14.2 - If we are required to pay such road tolls, fines, charges or associated costs, you agree that we may charge you with the amount of any fine plus a reasonable administration charge for dealing with these matters.
14.3 - We shall, upon request, supply you with a copy of any traffic violation notice which we receive.

I have read on this forum that most car rental T&Cs don't cover PCN as they usually only mention tickets and fines. However it seems to me that their wording includes everything. What do you think?
Also, I have also read that they should have named me as the driver instead of paying as by doing so I cannot appeal anymore. Do I get that right?
Finally, the fact they charged my debit card without letting me know beforehand doesn't make me very happy, and I'm wondering if it is even legal.

Considering all that, I am thinking about going to the bank and asking for my money back. What would you do? I know they will do it straight away and investigate my claim afterwards, but what do you think will happen next? Do you think I'm right to do that?

Thanks a lot for your help and time.
Cheers,
Dave

Half_way

a private parking charge/ speculative invoice is not covered in any of the above.
Ask the hire company what the charge is/was for, and once you know what they are calling it then we will know how to proceed.
Do not say is a fine or a parking charge, just ask what the charge is for via email or letter.

one more thing, what does pcn stand for? who issues the ticket? is it a PCN or a PCN ?

Unicorn51

Clause 14.2

They could have just named you as the driver to the parking company, they are not under any obligation to pay this charge.

You are probably justified as claiming this as an unauthorized use of your debit card

ManxRed

DaveCC wrote: »

14 - ROAD TOLLS, PARKING FINES AND TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS
14.1 - You are fully responsible for all road tolls and any fines or other consequences of the violation of traffic regulations (including congestion charges), parking orders or prohibitions, or any other laws or regulations, during the rental.
14.2 - If we are required to pay such road tolls, fines, charges or associated costs, you agree that we may charge you with the amount of any fine plus a reasonable administration charge for dealing with these matters.
14.3 - We shall, upon request, supply you with a copy of any traffic violation notice which we receive.

The word 'charge' in 14.2 might possibly be construed to apply to a private parking charge, however nothing in 14.1 covers any civil charge relating to private parking. You haven't breached any of the items listed in 14.1. The use of 'such' in 14.2 implies that it is in relation to 14.1, and as I say, that clause doesn't cover private parking charges.

See what others say.

Edna_Basher

If this indeed relates to a PCN from a Private Parking Company, I agree with ManxRed.

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations specify that consumer contracts must be interpreted in a way that is the most favourable to the consumer (the principle of interpretation against the draftsman or contra proferentem).

Given that Paragraph 14 is written under the heading ROAD TOLLS, PARKING FINES AND TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS, I think that the consumer is reasonably entitled to consider that all clauses in this paragraph relate only to tolls, parking fines and traffic violations and specifically not to contractual parking charges issued by private parking companies.

Half_way

First you need to know exactly what your dealing with, and what the hire company thinks it has dealt with.
A PCN is not the same as a PCN as both a two completely different things, however its just a co-incidence that a PCN has the same initials as a PCN ( or so the BPA would have you believe )

Of course one is a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN), and the other a Parking Charge Notice (PCN)

Next you need to find out what the hire company says.
Query the PCN, and ask them who the issuing authority was, also ask them again to point out the section in their terms and conditions that allows them to pay this. Dont call it anything at this stage, you are trying to find out if the hire company refers to it as a fine or penalty.

Fruitcake

First of all you need to contact your debit card provider and tell them the charge is unauthorised and a fraudulent transaction. Put it immediately into dispute before you do anything else.


We need to know who the PPC was to help you further, however I'm pretty sure that Herz are a member of the BVRLA and therefore have been told to only pass on the hirer details to the private parking company, not pay the charge on your behalf or charge the hirer for passing on their details.
They have made a mistake and assumed the PCN was a PCN, not a PCN. They should know better and a complaint to the BVRLA is in order for them to remind all their members about the requirements of Hire Companies regarding BVRLA membership.

Half_way

chargebacks are to be used as a last resort, i would try and exhaust all other avenues first,
Who is the parking company involved?
Once you knwo what your dealing with ( and we do as well ) then you can be advised further.
the initial aim is to get the hire company to re-fund. if after trying that it doesnt work, then go for a charge back

Fruitcake

Half_way wrote: »

chargebacks are to be used as a last resort, i would try and exhaust all other avenues first,
Who is the parking company involved?
Once you knwo what your dealing with ( and we do as well ) then you can be advised further.
the initial aim is to get the hire company to re-fund. if after trying that it doesnt work, then go for a charge back

In my experience it is easier to put it into dispute than it is to charge it back after the event.


In the two hire car cases where I was involved the charges were put in dispute and resolved before it got too messy. The charges were repaid to the cards once the error of the hire car companys' ways were pointed out to them thus resolving the dispute.

DaveCC

Thanks for your replies.
I am quite sure we are talking about a Parking Charge Notice here, apparently with Premier Park Ltd (that what I could gather after talking to a Hertz person over the phone and looking it up on the internet).
I have contacted Hertz a second time, asking for the reason why this has been charged, what it relates to, and for a copy of the PCN. I have also asked them to quote what part of their T&Cs allows them to pay this, as suggested.
I'll keep you updated as soon as I've got an answer.
Cheers,
Dave

StaffsSW

Ask them if they have seen a copy of the BVRLA memorandum of understanding with the BPA.

If they have a signed rental agreement that covers the date in question, there is no reason for them to pay and recharge. They have removed your right of appeal, and now the ticket is paid, the parking company will have zero interest in reopening it, especially for someone whom they consider to be a third party in the matter.