UK Film Investments

poi

Anybody know anything about this?
http://www.ukfilminvestments.com/os23/
I know there used to be a tax dodge based on loss making films, but I thought HMRC had stomped on that.

EdGasket

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

How are you going to make money on loss making films??

dunstonh

To be considering that you must have considerable wealth. Typically in excess of £500k of investible assets. Do, you fit that profile?

poi

Absolutely agree.

The old scheme was to do with offsetting losses for tax purposes.

poi

dunstonh wrote: »

To be considering that you must have considerable wealth. Typically in excess of £500k of investible assets. Do, you fit that profile?

Lol. That's between me and my bank manager.

antrobus

dunstonh wrote: »

To be considering that you must have considerable wealth. Typically in excess of £500k of investible assets. Do, you fit that profile?

Don't know about that.:)

You could have bought into a slice of 'Gunned Down' - "a slick, action packed, violent heist thriller, set around London’s dark underworld" for only £10k. http://www.ukfilminvestments.com/

You get your initial capital back plus a 20% premium and 50% of the net profits. Of course, a lot might depend on when you get your capital plus premium back, and (given the way Hollywood Accounting works) there may never be any net profits.

paddyrg

Speaking as someone very close to the industry, I won't have anything to do with the financing/fundraising side of production - because it stinks.

Firstly I make no comment or judgement about this group whatsoever - they may be fully legit and above board (although is isn't easy to tell from their website). This is about the bigger picture.

I have seen just how grimy the world of film finance can be - just bear in mind that the industry is based on illusion, smoke and mirrors, and this can follow through to investors too. Wherever there is big money there are people trying to take advantage. Small investors (under £50k) may or may not get the blunt end of that. Some tax-related schemes I've seen are somewhat exotic, or have stretched the interpretation of some legitimate schemes. Some have very specific constraints not immediately apparent from the headlines (for instance having to spend 20h/week actively working for the production and for that to be demonstrable to HMRC or they'll hit you up for 40% plus fines). The repercussions can be significant. Some tax returns may not be absolutely straightforward.

More legit schemes used are often EIS, SEIS and DCMS Tax Credits. By combining these creatively, the government will underwrite a huge chunk of the film and end up paying many of the bills. Aside from the arms trade, it's hard to imagine a more tax-supported industry that wouldn't exist without government propping-up. Between these schemes and some creative accounting investors money can be hedged and protected to a large degree, with them providing cashflow for the production itself.

Would I invest in a movie? No chance. If I was to invest in a movie I'd make darn sure I understood exactly what I was signing up for, and make sure the producer understood exactly what they were signing up for. I'd chase the figures precisely. I'd make sure I wasn't dazzled or distracted by stars or showbiz.

Be aware soliciting exotic investments from the public is strictly regulated by the FCA. That would be a good starting point for anyone keen, that and being 100% certain they can afford to take the financial punt. They might ask themselves if returns on any investment were sure-fire and large, why the bank wouldn't lend the money instead of searching for small investors.

Reaper

There was a long running thread on another film investment opportunity which descended into farce, with alleged (I'd better say as it got a bit legal) "sock puppet" posters saying how great all their films were but nobody able to find any investor who had not lost all of their money. Here it is you feel like a lengthy read:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/212388

paddyrg

Just to add a little background-

Each year, at least 1000 UK scripts are written. Most are absolutely awful, but through one or another quirk some of the least dreadful get a tailwind and enter production.

Some will crowdfund, which is good for maybe £15k (less the platform fees and 'rewards' costs), and £15k goes nowhere on a film.

Some will make creative use of tax schemes and have much higher budgets. It costs over a million quid to make a fairly low-end film well, with cast you recognise. How does it cost so much? It takes a lot of people a lot of time with expensive equipment and lots of legal fees. Cash just gets eaten up when to put 20 people in the background of a scene costs you £3+k a day (about 3 screen minutes) - on top of other filming costs. Even a fairly modest shoot will be eating £15k/day in wages, locations, equipment, talent, power, effects, honey wagons, dining buses, catering, costume, makeup, transport, offices, backups, etc. That's £450k on a 30 day (3 minutes a day) shoot before you look at indirect costs, creative costs, big names, animals, children, anything visually interesting, night shooting, lawyers fees, escrow costs, production fees, etc., or even look at postproduction costs (edit, sound mix, score, grade, deliverables). And even at these costs you're still pulling in favours and nickel-and-diming all the way.

Clearly some films are significantly dearer, too, once you get into anything vaguely fancy.

Why tell you this? Because if you want to invest on films, you'd best be darn sure you understand the industry and its costs.

Most of those terrible scripts never get made (nor do most of the actually quite good ones), however in order to marry a prince you'll need to kiss a lot of frogs, and that means reading a ton of very bad scripts. If you don't know what makes a good script, do not invest. If you don't understand script formatting (and why the layout on the page is so critical) don't invest. If you want to make a quick buck don't invest. If you want long residuals, don't invest. The times you should invest are when your wannabe actress daughter is getting a film credit, or you want to spend a (rather dull) day on set watching an actor fluff lines for 8 hours and then be told to be nice to you in between!

Despite it employing a lot of skilled people at below 1990's rates in 'creative jobs', it's an oversubscribed sector, most of it is propped up by tax, and still manages to lose money.

Hollywood is all about illusion and selling dreams, always has been. They're brilliant at it, they even make film seem glamorous! It really, really isn't. It's pretty horrible in truth, 70hr weeks in the pouring rain, scorching sun, or whatever else you're thrown, trying to make Margate in March look like Miami in midsummer, everyone is tired, everyone is grumpy, everyone is missing their families... But Hollywood glamour tempts people to invest with their hearts not heads. Use your head!