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Would you pay higher taxes for NHS drugs for all? Poll discussion

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  • DavyBoy_2
    DavyBoy_2 Posts: 25 Forumite
    "Super-Drugs" can be a better answer:
    Take this website: http://www.lawnlamp.cn/LawnLamp-C7954R001.html
    In the study over 9 months, it showed that whilst the newer drugs cost $800 more than the older drugs, it saved $700 in outpatient costs, and $6000 on in-patient costs.

    This is hardly proof positive that all newer expensive drugs are better, but it is an argument that you can't say they are *ALL* too expensive to be effective for their increase in price!
  • I have worked in the NHS for 18yrs, I have worked in various fields including acute medicine, geriatrics, paediatrics and community oncology care and I would not pay one extra penny to the NHS in taxes.
    Why should we pay for the likes of drug addicts to have free heroin injections when people with alzheimers and cancer are deprived of drugs which may make their life easier even if it wont help cure them.They didnt ask for those diseases.
    I also would not pay towards treatment of smoking related disease, alcohol related disease or disease and disability caused by obesity.There is enough help and support available to combat these.They should see what its really like for people to suffer with a horrible, nasty, painful condition that they had no choice in aquiring.people with bad hips and knees because they are fat should go to the bottom of the list because they wont stop overeating when operated on and will still claim benefits.Some people take, take take and never give back.
    The NHS cant treat everyone it needs to prioritise and at the moment its priorities are all wrong.
    They get rid of good nurses, not because they arnt needed but because the books dont balance.The care is then comprimised and the media blames the filthy nurses who dont wash their hands, they should blame the managers who cut staff and leave you with triple the workload and 50% less staff.
    Money is wasted left right and centre, recently a Manager was suspended for 18 months for fraud and was paid over £45000 whilst the ivestigation was done, the person was sacked but the money and the money defrauded was never repaid, it would have paid for at least 50 people to receive the alzheimers drug.

    OK rant over....now slate me, go on I can take it!
  • jjoy
    jjoy Posts: 4 Newbie
    Thanks Yant1, I'm in a safety critical job and I get drug tested! Boring

    I'm sorry teddyco I can't agree with you, I was brought up vegetarian, exersiced regularly, I don't drink or smoke and I sill have an auto imune disease. I'm affraid that asprin does not even come close to helping my pain.

    The only way the cost of new drugs is lowered is by using them. The greater the production the lower the cost. I like to think I'm doing my bit to benifit those who come after me:o
  • jjoy
    jjoy Posts: 4 Newbie
    Thanks Yant1, I'm in a safety critical job and I get drug tested! Boring

    I'm sorry teddyco I can't agree with you, I was brought up vegetarian, exercised regularly, I don't drink or smoke and I sill have an auto immune disease. I'm afraid that aspirin does not even come close to helping my pain.

    The only way the cost of new drugs is lowered is by using them. The greater the production the lower the cost. I like to think I'm doing my bit to benefit those who come after me:o
  • Theres nothing boring about it, youll be as high as a kite. Safety critical, just makes it more fun, if you kill someone you can blame the nhs :D

    Forgot about NHS managers they get paid 100K+ to do f**k all but play on the internet all day, whats that about?
  • There are dangers in the sort of hypothecation being suggested. Excise Duty on cars (road tax to me and you!) is supposedly a hypothecated tax ..... but how much of that is now spent on roads??!!
    I spent 20 years working for the NHS and have been a heavy user of NHS services ... having had a two kidney transplants , gastric surgery (twice), a hip replacement and skin cancer ..... amongst many other problems.
    BUT ... I still don't think taxing more to directly fund drugs is a good idea. This will do little to encourage the drug company leeches to reduce their prices over time.
    I also think that this issue cannot be divorced from general NHS issues ... such as the billions that are being wsted on profligate privately financed PFI initiatives to build and run hospitals. Our local NHS hospital pays £1.3 million PER MONTH to the PFI company that built the hospital .... no wonder we cant afford to buy drugs.
    Oh ...... and I'm sorry ... but I would not support the free provision of non-life threatening conditions such as infertility. You don't die or become ill from not being able to have a baby.
    Mark
  • I just hope that these people who would not give even one penny in the pound more in tax to help with drugs needed to give people more quality of life don't need help themselves, I'm sure that if these illnesses happened to them or their family it would be a different matter and they would soon change their views. At the age of 50 my husband was struck with Parkinsons Disease, although he can no longer work, but I have to, we still has to pay for the cocktail of drugs that he has to take to enable him to get through the day. Some poor people don't even get this opportunity as the drugs are too expensive for the NHS to fund. Some people are so selfish, they do not deserve their health.
  • teddyco
    teddyco Posts: 397 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    DavyBoy,

    In the 1950's doctor's prescribed the drug thalidomide for morning sickness and as a sleeping pill. Then it was discovered that even one dose in early pregnancy could severely stunt the growth of fetal arms and legs—thousands of deformed babies were born. Mother's had children with 'flippers'.

    I am convinced that one of these days, someone is going to take these companies to court and discover 'hidden memo's' that were passed between drug executives who knew what these poison's were doing to patients, and did nothing to ban them.

    It's just like the cigarette companies who knew chemicals were being added to their product to hook patients and increase profits.

    Epilepsy caused by diet? Actually do we know what causes Epilepsy?
    Lead paint? Asbestos? Mercury in our seafood? How about mercury in our teeth fillings? Did you know that mercury is used to make the fillings that go into a tooth filling? Does any of this leech into the blood over a lifetime and cause alzheimer's? We know what it did to the 'Mad Hatter's of London' who used mercury in the production. Some modern day dentists are saying yes. Sorry, don't have the reference material in front of me.

    The other day, there was an article in the Times about the amount of mercury and aluminum in the MMR jab that has been under the microscope. Some are saying that mercury causes autism in children. I know it's not Epilepsy, but close.

    See recent article in the 'Daily Mail'.........

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=376203&in_page_id=1774&in_a_source

    I think I read in the article in the Times that mercury is still present in the flu shot that elderly folks take each year. Is this good?

    If we allow the NHS to grab hold of this pharmaceutical catastrophe that has already swallowed the US medical system, it will sink our NHS and there are other therapies that are a lot more successful.

    I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but it is the pharmaceutical companies who have been lobbying the Congress of America HARD to try and force vitamins and healthy supplements to require a prescription under a doctor.

    Imagine having to go to the doctor to get a bottle of Vitamin C or D, or E?
    These are the supplements that folks with arthritis should be taking, not toxic drugs.

    It has nothing to do with 'quacks or sugar pill pushers', but making more profits. It is mainly the result of folks discovering alternative methods of health that is taking money away from the Pharma industry.

    I once met a fella several years ago who admitted to me that his 'brain cancer' had been totally cured. The doctors told him that he had weeks to live and wrote him off as dead. At first, I thought he was a nutter, a quack, off his chair.

    He attended the Gerson Clinic which was developed by the late Dr. Max Gerson who invented the therapy. Dr. Gerson developed his therapy in Germany and fled to America to escape the Nazi holocaust. His daughter Charlotte Gerson, who carries on with his work, has cured thousands of cancers, tumors, physical problems, arthritis etc.

    See Dr. Max Gerson under 'Wikipedia' for details of his life and therapy.

    Also see the link below for the Gerson Therapy.


    http://www.gerson.org/

    I hope this helps someone who is interested in getting away from the drug trap!
  • teddyco
    teddyco Posts: 397 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    jjoy,

    My grandmother suffered with arthritis and she told me how painful it was for her. Here are some case studies from the Gerson Clinic website, and the best part is they did it WITHOUT DRUGS!

    http://www.gerson.org/g_therapy/case_studies.asp

    Case Studies

    Subject: Rheumatoid Arthritis

    BILL GOERDES, 96, SEVERE RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS, BLEEDING STOMACH ULCERS.
    1941, NY Presbyterian Medical Center X-rays showed spine fused top to bottom with rheumatoid arthritis. Offered no hope. Had bleeding stomach ulcers. Began Gerson Therapy with Dr. Gerson October, 1941. Ulcers gone in six weeks. Light work in 7 1/2 months, heavy duties in 14 months. Health completely restored. Last contact indicated over 50 years of good health.

    DEANNA POWELL DOUD, SEVERE RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS.
    Began 1970, bedridden 1976, gold, prednisone. Constant pain, stiffness, all joints, swollen, elbows, knees, most fingers bent, frozen. Bony deformities, great difficulty walking. Heart palpitations, labored breathing, pale, anemic, hypoglycemic. 15-20 aspirins daily, still pain, insomnia. Began Gerson Therapy in Mexican hospital May, 1978. In six weeks, pain gone, most lumps dissolving. All problems resolved except a few joints not quite clear. Excellent energy, active, 19 years later. Married, has family.

    SUSAN ADAMS, SEVERE RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS.
    April 1979, three weeks after childbirth, 'it hit all at once.' All joints swollen, stiff. On aspirin, losing hearing, stomach upset. On Motrin one year, hands locked shut, arms immovable. Knees 3 times normal size, ankles huge. Couldn't do anything, lay in bed and cried. Parents heard of Gerson Therapy. Coffee enemas helped. Gerson Therapy in Mexican hospital June, 1980, improved. After first year, really got better. Plays piano duets with son, rides horseback. She is still well 17 years later.

    MAUREEN BINNEY, 86, ARTHRITIS, SPREADING MELANOMA, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, CATARACTS, POOR HEARING, LOSS OF EQUILIBRIUM.
    July, 1980, City of Hope surgeon "couldn't get all" of neck tumor. Biopsy: melanoma. More surgery to remove more cancer refused. Given two months to live. Began Gerson Therapy at Mexican hospital in September, 1980. Cancer, high blood pressure, equilibrium problems all healed. Family says she hears too much. Reads easily. Alive, cancer-free 17 years later.

    MELVA BLACKBURN, 79, ARTHRITIS, DIABETES, ALZHEIMERS, KIDNEY, ADRENAL DISEASE, CUSHING'S SYNDROME.
    Medical problems from 1944. Treated until 1979. Heart, coronary artery disease. Diabetes drugs after 1965. Poor control of legs, feel. Cushing's syndrome (adrenal disease, obesity, fatigue, weakness, osteoporosis, edema, infections). Pneumonia twice/year. Enlarged liver. Arthritis in all joints. Anxiety, ataxia, confusion, aphasia. Alzheimer's (premature old age) diagnosed. Years on drugs, many surgeries. Began Gerson Therapy in Mexican hospital October, 1979. Rapidly improved. All diseases gone, no drugs. Astounded her doctors. Remains active, well 18 years later.
  • DavyBoy_2
    DavyBoy_2 Posts: 25 Forumite
    teddyco wrote: »
    DavyBoy,Epilepsy caused by diet? Actually do we know what causes Epilepsy?
    No, we don't know explicitly, but one thing is for sure, the increased incidence of drugs is not cause, nor our changing diets and methods for growing food; if we can date Epilepsy back to 400BC:

    http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/history.html

    And comparing Autism to Epilepsy is about as valid as comparing chalk with cheese. Whilst they are both physical problems with the brain, that is about as far as the similarities go. Wiki defines Autism as a "brain development disorder" whilst it defines Epilepsy as being attributed to "Genetic, congenital, and developmental conditions, ...tumors, ... or head trauma and central nervous system infections"

    I don't deny that the drugs companies look after number 1 first, and everyone else second. *Sometimes* this is at the expense of the side-effects of their drugs. But benefits can outweigh the risks.

    (Tounge in cheek)If you really want to live in the clean world you are after, then you should also switch off your computer, unplug all your electronics, move to somewhere where (wo)man has never stepped, and revert to the living style of 400BC. Personally, I'll take the convenience of prescription medication and half working health system over nothing at all any day(/Tongue in cheek)
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