Taiko - can you help at all please?!!

abbieno7_2

Hi Taiko

I've now received a response from SFE and they are sticking to their decision to refuse me help with tuition fees for the first year of my social work degree - is there anything else I can do to fight this please? I've copied their response below - sorry it's rather lengthy.

Thank you for your e-mails dated 01/06/2015 and 02/06/2015 into the Formal
Appeals mailbox. As a result, your appeal has been reviewed at Stage 1 of
the Student Finance England appeals process. I have reviewed all the
information provided in respect of your application and your appeal and I
am now in a position to respond.

I apologise if you feel that you have received incorrect information and
advice I am sorry that you feel that your previous contact with Student
Finance England has not met your expectations. I can confirm that an appeal
relates to how an application is assessed in line with the Education
(Student Support) Regulations and I will issue a response based on the
application of these Regulations. Please note, we cannot comment on funding
awarded to other individuals under the Data Protection Act.

Based on the information provided, you undertook a part-time Certificate in
Education (CertEd) at Leeds City College from 2011 to 2013 and were
awarded the qualification. You have then applied to study in BA (H) in
Social Work at the University of Huddersfield starting in the 2015/16
academic year.

When determining a student's eligibility for finance in the 2015/16
academic year, an application is assessed in accordance with The Education
(Student Support) Regulations 2011, as amended. Regulation 21 states:

FEE LOANS FOR CURRENT SYSTEM STUDENTS

Standard entitlement of current system students who have transferred from
or otherwise studied on a previous course
21.—(1) The standard entitlement of a current system student who has
studied on a previous course and who does not fall within regulation 22 is
calculated as follows:

(OD+1)-PC

where -
OD is the number of academic years that make up the ordinary duration of
the course
PC is the number of academic years that the student has spent on previous
courses.

Regulation 12 defines 'previous course' as:

12. – (1)
(b)where the current course begins on or after 1st September 2009—
(i) a lower level qualification achieved following a full-time or part-time
higher education course, a course for the initial training of teachers or a
course designated under regulation 5(10), which the student attended or, in
the case of a compressed degree course or a designated distance learning
course, undertook before the current course;

Paragraph 3 states:

12. - (3) The conditions are -
(a) the course was provided at a publically funded institution
whether or not in the United Kingdom for some or all of the academic years
during which the student attended or undertook the course.

Therefore, regardless of whether the course was studied full or part-time
is irrelevant in this instance as the course was for the Initial Training
of Teachers (ITT) and a qualification was gained.

Furthermore,

12.. -- (8) Subject to paragraphs (9), (10) and (11), for the purpose of
determining PC in the formulae in regulations 21 and 29—
(a) each academic year that the student completed on a previous course
is counted; and
(b) an academic year of a previous course that the student began or
ceased to attend part of the way through the year is counted as one
academic year on a previous course.

In line with Regulations 12(8)(a), as you studied over 2 academic years
then both years will be taken into account when calculating fee support for
your new course; the intensity of study is irrelevant. Therefore, your
entitlement to fee support for the BA (H) starting in the 2015/16 academic
year is calculated as follows:

3+1-2= 2 years support remaining.

I can confirm that you would not be entitled to receive fee support until
year 2 of your course, in line with Regulation 19 (6):

Availability of fee loans to current system students - general
19. - (6) When assessing an application for support in respect of an
academic year of a designated course, the Secretary of State must allocate
a fee loan from the standard entitlement first to the final standard
academic year of the course and then to each preceding standard academic
year in turn until the standard entitlement is exhausted or a fee loan has
been allocated to each standard academic year of the course.

You would be eligible to apply for maintenance loan only and supplementary
grants, i.e Parents Learning Allowance, Childcare Grant and Adult
Dependants Grants, if applicable in 2015/16. Full support would be
reinstated once you progress into year 2 of your course. However, as you do
not qualify for fee support, you will also not qualify for the maintenance
grant, in accordance with Regulation 56 (3):

Qualifying conditions for the maintenance grant
56. - (3) If a current system student does not qualify for a fee loan in
respect of an academic year of the designated course, the student cannot
qualify for a maintenance grant for that year unless the reason that the
student does not qualify for a fee loan is that—
(a) the year is an Erasmus year; or
(b) the designated course is an old flexible postgraduate course for the
initial training of teachers.

In terms of Social Work being an 'exceptions' course this is correct.
However, the 'exception' allows students who already hold a degree to
obtain further maintenance loan support for their new course. As you do not
already hold a degree and are not precluded from receiving maintenance loan
support then this 'exception' is irrelevant in your case.

Whilst I appreciate that this may not be the response you were hoping for,
I believe that Student Finance England has applied the Education (Student
Support) Regulations 2011, as amended, correctly in this case. The Student
Loans Company (SLC) is a public body and is bound to administer the student
support scheme within the legislative framework laid down by government.
Entitlement to funding is entirely governed by the relevant provisions of
the appropriate student support regulations, stated above. This is not a
question of discretion, the SLC are bound by these regulations.

Yours sincerely

Danielle McIsaac
Formal Appeals Stage 1
Student Finance England

Student Loans Company Ltd
Memphis Building
Lingfield Point
Darlington
DL1 1RW

Further information on the Student Finance England Formal Appeals process
can be found on https://www.gov.uk/studentfinance within the pages "Quick Guide to
Student Finance - How and when to apply - Appealing against a decision on
your application.” If you still believe our decision is wrong based on the
application of the Regulations you can request that your appeal is reviewed
at Stage 2 of the Formal Appeals process by emailing
formalappeals_stage2@slc.co.uk, downloading the appropriate form on the
above website or writing to us at Formal Appeals - Stage 2, Memphis
Building, Lingfield Point, PO Box 226, Darlington DL1 9GA.


Thanks in advance

Taiko

Hi Abbie,

I apologise, I've not had chance to really deal with things on MSE for the last couple of weeks.

Based on the regs they are quoting, I think they may be right. Going on memory from the previous post, I thought they had said you wouldn't be eligible at all.

I cannot find anything on changes, but it used to be that part time courses were not taken into account. It might be worth having a read of the "Assessing Eligibility Guidance" and "Assessing Financial Entitlement" pages on the link below.

http://www.practitioners.slc.co.uk/policy-information/guidance-chapters.aspx

I think they might be correct that you need to self fund the fees in year one, which I believe differs to the previous post. Again, I apologise that I cannot spare the time to go into things a bit deeper.

SuperCat007

abbieno7 wrote: »

Hi Taiko

I've now received a response from SFE and they are sticking to their decision to refuse me help with tuition fees for the first year of my social work degree - is there anything else I can do to fight this please? I've copied their response below - sorry it's rather lengthy.

Thank you for your e-mails dated 01/06/2015 and 02/06/2015 into the Formal
Appeals mailbox. As a result, your appeal has been reviewed at Stage 1 of
the Student Finance England appeals process. I have reviewed all the
information provided in respect of your application and your appeal and I
am now in a position to respond.

I apologise if you feel that you have received incorrect information and
advice I am sorry that you feel that your previous contact with Student
Finance England has not met your expectations. I can confirm that an appeal
relates to how an application is assessed in line with the Education
(Student Support) Regulations and I will issue a response based on the
application of these Regulations. Please note, we cannot comment on funding
awarded to other individuals under the Data Protection Act.

Based on the information provided, you undertook a part-time Certificate in
Education (CertEd) at Leeds City College from 2011 to 2013 and were
awarded the qualification. You have then applied to study in BA (H) in
Social Work at the University of Huddersfield starting in the 2015/16
academic year.

When determining a student's eligibility for finance in the 2015/16
academic year, an application is assessed in accordance with The Education
(Student Support) Regulations 2011, as amended. Regulation 21 states:

FEE LOANS FOR CURRENT SYSTEM STUDENTS

Standard entitlement of current system students who have transferred from
or otherwise studied on a previous course
21.—(1) The standard entitlement of a current system student who has
studied on a previous course and who does not fall within regulation 22 is
calculated as follows:

(OD+1)-PC

where -
OD is the number of academic years that make up the ordinary duration of
the course
PC is the number of academic years that the student has spent on previous
courses.

Regulation 12 defines 'previous course' as:

12. – (1)
(b)where the current course begins on or after 1st September 2009—
(i) a lower level qualification achieved following a full-time or part-time
higher education course, a course for the initial training of teachers or a
course designated under regulation 5(10), which the student attended or, in
the case of a compressed degree course or a designated distance learning
course, undertook before the current course;

Paragraph 3 states:

12. - (3) The conditions are -
(a) the course was provided at a publically funded institution
whether or not in the United Kingdom for some or all of the academic years
during which the student attended or undertook the course.

Therefore, regardless of whether the course was studied full or part-time
is irrelevant in this instance as the course was for the Initial Training
of Teachers (ITT) and a qualification was gained.

Furthermore,

12.. -- (8) Subject to paragraphs (9), (10) and (11), for the purpose of
determining PC in the formulae in regulations 21 and 29—
(a) each academic year that the student completed on a previous course
is counted; and
(b) an academic year of a previous course that the student began or
ceased to attend part of the way through the year is counted as one
academic year on a previous course.

In line with Regulations 12(8)(a), as you studied over 2 academic years
then both years will be taken into account when calculating fee support for
your new course; the intensity of study is irrelevant. Therefore, your
entitlement to fee support for the BA (H) starting in the 2015/16 academic
year is calculated as follows:

3+1-2= 2 years support remaining.

I can confirm that you would not be entitled to receive fee support until
year 2 of your course, in line with Regulation 19 (6):

Availability of fee loans to current system students - general
19. - (6) When assessing an application for support in respect of an
academic year of a designated course, the Secretary of State must allocate
a fee loan from the standard entitlement first to the final standard
academic year of the course and then to each preceding standard academic
year in turn until the standard entitlement is exhausted or a fee loan has
been allocated to each standard academic year of the course.

You would be eligible to apply for maintenance loan only and supplementary
grants, i.e Parents Learning Allowance, Childcare Grant and Adult
Dependants Grants, if applicable in 2015/16. Full support would be
reinstated once you progress into year 2 of your course. However, as you do
not qualify for fee support, you will also not qualify for the maintenance
grant, in accordance with Regulation 56 (3):

Qualifying conditions for the maintenance grant
56. - (3) If a current system student does not qualify for a fee loan in
respect of an academic year of the designated course, the student cannot
qualify for a maintenance grant for that year unless the reason that the
student does not qualify for a fee loan is that—
(a) the year is an Erasmus year; or
(b) the designated course is an old flexible postgraduate course for the
initial training of teachers.

In terms of Social Work being an 'exceptions' course this is correct.
However, the 'exception' allows students who already hold a degree to
obtain further maintenance loan support for their new course. As you do not
already hold a degree and are not precluded from receiving maintenance loan
support then this 'exception' is irrelevant in your case.

Whilst I appreciate that this may not be the response you were hoping for,
I believe that Student Finance England has applied the Education (Student
Support) Regulations 2011, as amended, correctly in this case. The Student
Loans Company (SLC) is a public body and is bound to administer the student
support scheme within the legislative framework laid down by government.
Entitlement to funding is entirely governed by the relevant provisions of
the appropriate student support regulations, stated above. This is not a
question of discretion, the SLC are bound by these regulations.

Yours sincerely

Danielle McIsaac
Formal Appeals Stage 1
Student Finance England

Student Loans Company Ltd
Memphis Building
Lingfield Point
Darlington
DL1 1RW

Further information on the Student Finance England Formal Appeals process
can be found on https://www.gov.uk/studentfinance within the pages "Quick Guide to
Student Finance - How and when to apply - Appealing against a decision on
your application.” If you still believe our decision is wrong based on the
application of the Regulations you can request that your appeal is reviewed
at Stage 2 of the Formal Appeals process by emailing
formalappeals_stage2@slc.co.uk, downloading the appropriate form on the
above website or writing to us at Formal Appeals - Stage 2, Memphis
Building, Lingfield Point, PO Box 226, Darlington DL1 9GA.


Thanks in advance

Hi, we spoke on another thread you started. I'm really sorry about the outcome, but at least you have an answer now. Very similar to my case. As I understand it, if you accept the qualification (as we both have) then the part time years are taken from your full time entitlement. If you don't complete or accept the qualification then you have a little more room for argument.

I am seriously considering taking legal action against SFE, but I need to sort my financial affairs out before I even consider it after financially crippling myself studying my A-levels.

Rachcart

Reading this thread I think I am going to get nowhere with my appeal also. I have previously studied part time for 4 years, and tuition fees paid for through my then job. I didn't apply for any funding as I was at uni as a condition for my job and was working full time, and had no idea I should have. So having decided to go back to uni to study full time and applying for the first time for student finance, I was shocked to get a letter to tell me I'm not entitled for my first year, but I am in year 2 and 3. I have appealed but like I say I'm not expecting anything but a no to everything except the maintenance loan which they have already said I can have. Is there anything else I should be doing, or anywhere else that I can apply to for my tuition costs? Any advice would be gratefully received.

SuperCat007

Rachcart wrote: »

Reading this thread I think I am going to get nowhere with my appeal also. I have previously studied part time for 4 years, and tuition fees paid for through my then job. I didn't apply for any funding as I was at uni as a condition for my job and was working full time, and had no idea I should have. So having decided to go back to uni to study full time and applying for the first time for student finance, I was shocked to get a letter to tell me I'm not entitled for my first year, but I am in year 2 and 3. I have appealed but like I say I'm not expecting anything but a no to everything except the maintenance loan which they have already said I can have. Is there anything else I should be doing, or anywhere else that I can apply to for my tuition costs? Any advice would be gratefully received.

There may be some local grants etc that you might be able to apply for.

Personally I'm a little baffled you've only been refused year 1. I only did 2 years part time but was given the same condition as you. So I would double check the decision, I got to uni in the past and they then decided to remove my funding. So whilst it may leave you in a worse situation it is best to know.

I would appeal. There still seems to be HUGE discrepancies between what kind of funding is granted to ex PT students which is unfair. I've since come across loads of other people who have either been granted full time support, or have been told they'll get it even though they've already spent 2+ years in HE.

abbieno7_2

Rachcart wrote: »

Reading this thread I think I am going to get nowhere with my appeal also. I have previously studied part time for 4 years, and tuition fees paid for through my then job. I didn't apply for any funding as I was at uni as a condition for my job and was working full time, and had no idea I should have. So having decided to go back to uni to study full time and applying for the first time for student finance, I was shocked to get a letter to tell me I'm not entitled for my first year, but I am in year 2 and 3. I have appealed but like I say I'm not expecting anything but a no to everything except the maintenance loan which they have already said I can have. Is there anything else I should be doing, or anywhere else that I can apply to for my tuition costs? Any advice would be gratefully received.

Hi there

Good luck with the appeal - I'm surprised they're not saying you've already had a full four years finance given their stance with me in that two years part time study used up two years worth of entitlement.

Let me know how you get on please.

abbieno7_2

SuperCat007 wrote: »

There may be some local grants etc that you might be able to apply for.

Personally I'm a little baffled you've only been refused year 1. I only did 2 years part time but was given the same condition as you. So I would double check the decision, I got to uni in the past and they then decided to remove my funding. So whilst it may leave you in a worse situation it is best to know.

I would appeal. There still seems to be HUGE discrepancies between what kind of funding is granted to ex PT students which is unfair. I've since come across loads of other people who have either been granted full time support, or have been told they'll get it even though they've already spent 2+ years in HE.

My thoughts exactly! How can they inform some people that each part time year uses up a full years entitlement but not others. They don't seem to have a clue what they're doing!

Best of luck to you both - I've found myself a job instead, less hassle!!

SuperCat007

abbieno7 wrote: »

My thoughts exactly! How can they inform some people that each part time year uses up a full years entitlement but not others. They don't seem to have a clue what they're doing!

Best of luck to you both - I've found myself a job instead, less hassle!!

Sickening isn't it. I have actually sent another complaint to SFE and plan to send one to the Department for Business, Skills and Innovation and a letter to the OU about this.

I have had to do the same and will attempt to study full time with the OU as well to complete my degree.

Nothing against the above poster, but it does seem to be some rules for one and different rules for another.