Boundary issues

Leo2020

You can only build within your land. Therefore it is perfectly reasonable for the fence to be a foot from the boundary markers because a fence will require footings. The footings cannot go over the boundary unless the person who owns the adjacent land agrees.

So your neighbour did the right thing - he erected a fence within his land, rather than erecting a fence bang on the boundary with part of the footings in your garden.

You didn't know what the concrete markers were for - it is shame you didn't query it but you cant go back in time. I would put some other marker or small fence to show where the boundary is. If he wants a new 6ft fence he can take down his old one and put a new one in place.

Land_Registry

These sorts of threads can run and run but ultimately resolved boundary issues come down to one thing only in my experience, neighbours agreeing what to do and formalising that agreement in some way.

Advice will always vary and personal experiences are always helpful but the key thing is that your boundary is unique to your own properties and of course you as neighbours are unique.

My post is not intended to muddy the waters but simply set a few things out, which in my experience are most relevant from purely a general perspective. I hope it helps.

The 'modern' answer to dealing with disagreements over what type, size, colour etc of fence seems to be to erect it on your own land and a foot or so inside the existing boundary feature - this may be what your neighbour did and/or a previous owner of your own property took down the existing fence from between the concrete posts and decided they could not get the posts out but I suspect only the neighbour now knows the history behind it.

As others have posted you don't always own your left or right but at some point in time a deed may have been entered into which included covenants by a buyer with the seller that they would maintain the fences on specific boundaries. Those covenants may remain in play over time but once the properties have been sold on their enforceability usually diminishes but they remain a useful starting point for discussions.
The two key points though re such markings/covenants are though that often fences get replaced and moved and/or the neighbours share the cost so over the years their importance can be lessened.

Another thing to take into account is, as others have also posted, a neighbour may put up the fence and as such they 'own it' as in own the materials used. It does not mean they own or are responsible for the boundary as a result. In your case you have a fence and an original boundary it seems.

What has happened previously can also come into play and often your seller's particulars of sale will indicate who has maintained a specific fence/boundary for example. Not always though as they may never have changed all the time they were there.

In an ideal all of the above 'match' from a neighbouring perspective so any covenants match, sellers' info matches and so on. But that does not always happen

Legal advice may help to formalise the information already obtained and provide an understanding in the legal issues you both may face. And a surveyor may help to map out the issues for you and advise as to where the actual legal boundary might lie. They are though again just views in the same way as Land Registry or other forum users can offer a view - the views most likely to really count here will be your's and your neighbours.

So bearing all of that in mind the here and now will often trump all else simply because if you can agree then that's fine. If you can't then it is likely to be a case of how far are you willing to take it, perhaps not legally but through your own actions and this seems to be where much of the advice is taking you.

So, my advice would be to pool available information inc what is registered, what is remembered re the siting of the neighbour's fence and the posts, what has happened since re your landscaping and what your seller advised.
Read up on the forum posts/threads linked to to get a feel for how these things can go both financially, legally and in terms of stress
And then agree what works for both of you - as mentioned neither of you will want this to become a dispute over either the fence, the boundary or the foot of land.

It seems as if you and your neighbour are discussing this amicably and that the initial suggestion was to go halves - everything is negotiable but if you are sharing the same information and agreeing what's important then hopefully you can resolve it amicably.

jamesp31

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

These sorts of threads can run and run but ultimately resolved boundary issues come down to one thing only in my experience, neighbours agreeing what to do and formalising that agreement in some way.

Advice will always vary and personal experiences are always helpful but the key thing is that your boundary is unique to your own properties and of course you as neighbours are unique.

My post is not intended to muddy the waters but simply set a few things out, which in my experience are most relevant from purely a general perspective. I hope it helps.

The 'modern' answer to dealing with disagreements over what type, size, colour etc of fence seems to be to erect it on your own land and a foot or so inside the existing boundary feature - this may be what your neighbour did and/or a previous owner of your own property took down the existing fence from between the concrete posts and decided they could not get the posts out but I suspect only the neighbour now knows the history behind it.

As others have posted you don't always own your left or right but at some point in time a deed may have been entered into which included covenants by a buyer with the seller that they would maintain the fences on specific boundaries. Those covenants may remain in play over time but once the properties have been sold on their enforceability usually diminishes but they remain a useful starting point for discussions.
The two key points though re such markings/covenants are though that often fences get replaced and moved and/or the neighbours share the cost so over the years their importance can be lessened.

Another thing to take into account is, as others have also posted, a neighbour may put up the fence and as such they 'own it' as in own the materials used. It does not mean they own or are responsible for the boundary as a result. In your case you have a fence and an original boundary it seems.

What has happened previously can also come into play and often your seller's particulars of sale will indicate who has maintained a specific fence/boundary for example. Not always though as they may never have changed all the time they were there.

In an ideal all of the above 'match' from a neighbouring perspective so any covenants match, sellers' info matches and so on. But that does not always happen

Legal advice may help to formalise the information already obtained and provide an understanding in the legal issues you both may face. And a surveyor may help to map out the issues for you and advise as to where the actual legal boundary might lie. They are though again just views in the same way as Land Registry or other forum users can offer a view - the views most likely to really count here will be your's and your neighbours.

So bearing all of that in mind the here and now will often trump all else simply because if you can agree then that's fine. If you can't then it is likely to be a case of how far are you willing to take it, perhaps not legally but through your own actions and this seems to be where much of the advice is taking you.

So, my advice would be to pool available information inc what is registered, what is remembered re the siting of the neighbour's fence and the posts, what has happened since re your landscaping and what your seller advised.
Read up on the forum posts/threads linked to to get a feel for how these things can go both financially, legally and in terms of stress
And then agree what works for both of you - as mentioned neither of you will want this to become a dispute over either the fence, the boundary or the foot of land.

It seems as if you and your neighbour are discussing this amicably and that the initial suggestion was to go halves - everything is negotiable but if you are sharing the same information and agreeing what's important then hopefully you can resolve it amicably.

The update is: luckily we took lots of photos before the landscaping began, many of which show the concrete posts in question and although it won't be scientific, they do give a very good indication of where they were sited. So we are going to put wooden posts in their place, then put up a 4 foot fence (we are replacing a fence on other side so will have panels to reuse) inside this boundary. If this doesn't keep him happy I don't know what will. I think he was hoping to claim more land than he was entitled to, once we showed him the photos he realised that he couldn't claim 'half a metre' when the concrete posts are pretty much touching his fence anyway!

DTDfanBoy

jamesp31 wrote: »

The update is: luckily we took lots of photos before the landscaping began, many of which show the concrete posts in question and although it won't be scientific, they do give a very good indication of where they were sited. So we are going to put wooden posts in their place, then put up a 4 foot fence (we are replacing a fence on other side so will have panels to reuse) inside this boundary. If this doesn't keep him happy I don't know what will. I think he was hoping to claim more land than he was entitled to, once we showed him the photos he realised that he couldn't claim 'half a metre' when the concrete posts are pretty much touching his fence anyway!

I would be wary of pandering to his demands by putting up a fence.

Land_Registry

It reads as if you are finding a solution to the issue and to some extent at least reflecting what was there before.

We will all have different views as to this but it still comes down to the individuals involved. That will apply as well in the future when you come to sell as a buyer may query 'the double fence' arrangement but that is no different to asking 'why are there concrete posts in situ' as well so as long as you have the answers to any questions and they are satisfied there will hopefully be no further issues

Out of interest did the neighbour offer any clues as to how or why the situation had arisen with regards erecting a fence on own land as suggested?

Mistral001

I have just reread the original post and I see that the neighbour has offered to pay for half of the new fence. That seems like a good offer to me considering the circumstances. The land between the two fences can only be touched by the neighbour. There is no guarantee that the neighbour will maintain it so anything can grow there and you will not be allowed to touch it except for cutting any overhanging branches. Apart from large weeds growing wild, the neighbour could plant his own plants there as well.

libbo2003

hello everyone on here
I have a problem with my neighbour. I moved into my house 8 years ago and my neighbour moved in 2yrs ago. For the last 2 years all he done is ask me to replace the garden fence that I own because it is shabby on his side. The fence has been well maintained by me so I have just made sure it is not going to fall down or anything to maybe damage his property. Now he has started to do some work in his garden and because the post dont line up in a straight line he is claiming that part of the fence maybe over his border and if it is I will have to move it. The fence I would say has been there for longer then 10 years at the very least.Anyone know what are the border rights for a fence that neither present neighbours had erected? Also the house is a 100 year old London Terrace house.

harrys_dad

Hi, you are better off making a new thread than being 3 pages down an old one.

libbo2003

thanks for that i have started a new thread.

G_M

* A fence is owned by the person who puts it up - pays for it and installs it.

* there is no obligation to have a fence at all on a boundary (unless there is a specific covenant in the deeds)

* a fence does not have to be on a boundary - your neighbour can put up a fence anywhere he wishes on his own land

* the 1st key issue is who owns the boundary itself (not the fence). The owner of the boundary can put up a fence on the boundary if he wishes (but
does not have to). A neighbour who does not own the bounday cannot put up a fence on it (without consent)

* the owner of the boundary may be hard to identify - there is no hard rule (eg the boundary on the left, or right). It may be marked on Land Registry (or other) Plans, or may not. There may be a common factor in the road (eg all the houses were built at the same time, and each house owned the boundary on the left.... or right.)

* The 2nd issue is establishing where the boundary is. Are you sure it is where the concrete posts were? Or where the neighbour's fence is? Is there an obvious straight line running back from the house(s)? What do the Plans show?



But as will all neighbour disputes, the best solution is an amicable one, not a legalistic one. So if you are happy to accept that the real bounday is where the concrete posts are, and are happy to have a fence on that boundary, a 50/50 split of the cost seems fair. Agree (in writing) who will maintain/repair/replace it in future. And agree what kind of fence you want - picket or 6 foot panels etc.