Selling through a auction house . Problems .

stapeley

I recently sent a few items to a auction house for sale .They sell at their warehouse and on line . Payments are made approximately 17 days after sale through bank transfer . 22 days after one of my items sold ,and 8 days after I was paid , I receive a email from them . It says a "today a buyer has sent back a purchased item , He has had it looked at and states it is not authentic.Please refund the amount we paid you so we can refund the buyer ."
It gives their bank details for a refund . I have no doubt it is from the company and is not a scam .
The item in question was a photo album containing a number of photos and autographs arranged in a scrapbook fashion. I had previously purchased the item along with several other similar items privately. When I sent this item to them I enclosed this information, stating it had no provenance . I believe item was described as such in the sale.
It was my understanding that most auction sales were , sold as seen . It is for the buyer to examine item himself and make himself aware of any faults etc To me auctions are always a bit of a punt for both seller and buyer . Also that some real bargains can be found .
My point being is that , if a buyer after purchase finds it to be of extreme value ,and they make a huge profit , do they share their good fortune with the seller ? I think not . Equally they may lose some, win some .
I have read auction house conditions , no where does it say buyers can return goods for a refund . Where do I stand on this ?

Wizzbang

Here you go:https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/different-ways-of-buying/buying-at-auction/buying-goods-in-an-auction/

I think you are quite right, they don't have a leg to stand on. I would just ignore the communication.

geordie_joe

I would be tempted to ignore it and see what happens.

But it is not as clear cut as them "not having a leg to stand on".

If you actually read the page in Wizzbang's link you will see the line

"The only right you'll have is that you can expect to buy goods from someone who has permission to sell them."

If the autographs are fake then you did not have permission to sell them. Nobody has permission, or the right to sell fake goods in the UK.

It could also be argued that fake autographs are theft, so you have sold stolen goods.

However, how hard will the buyer try to get his money back? How hard will the auction house try to get it back for them? Would a solicitor take up the buyers case? Would the local police bother to investigate a few fake autographs? I doubt it, unless they thought you were the forger and were making lots of money from forging them yourself.

So, I don't think you are as "bullet proof" as some may think, but I also doubt anyone with a big gun is going to bother taking a shot at you.

Of course, it all depends on how much was paid, and if you have sold fake items in the past.

soolin

I agree with Geordie Joe.

I buy and sell at auction houses and always understood fake goods to be exempt from any 'buyer beware' terms. They are not legally to be traded so unless OP can prove them to be genuine I think he/ she may have issues.

As for,ignoring things, I would urge caution. Auction houses often have harsh rules, and if you get banned from one you may find the rest of the trade will ban you too if your name is passed around, they might struggle to recover a debt from you, but banning you is easy.

stapeley

Thank you all for your replies . Having bought items myself from both ebay and auction houses ,I have always been cautious. A lot of items on ebay are prints and it is so hard to tell the difference . But you always have the option of returning and a refund , ebay are very bias in the buyers favour . But of coarse goods can not be view before hand . Unlike at auction viewing is always recommended. If a item is described as a genuine LOWERY the price will reflect that . However if it has Lowery written on it , but is not described as by Lowery , the price will reflect that . If after research by the buyer , it is authenticated to Lowery , the buyer has no obligation to forward extra money to the seller . Several companies will sell prints of artists work , and state them as such . Paperwork will often state this item is a print . However if the print is passed around ,resold etc the paper does get lost . By looking at the item you can usually tell a print , and would pay only on that bias.
I purchased a load of items in a mixed lot .Keeping items that interested me , in fact paid to have some issued with a COA . Some of the others being sent off for sale . A couple I felt could be quite valuable ,worth possibly very high hundreds. But with no provenance or COA , was only hopeful . The items were described as no provenance in the sale . They reached a couple of hundred, bought by a internet bidder . Due to time delay involved I believe they were dispatched by post . Surely if you were paying out hundreds of pound you would want to view item in the flesh ?
I understand international buyers purchase on the phone ect , but auction houses will have authenticated and guaranteed item themselves for these high end sales . I repeat my assumption that a buyer gaining a large profit on a purchased item would not have a duty to forward extra monies to the seller .

Devon_Sailor

Stapely,
As a former auctioneer I can categorically say that they have no grounds at all with which to chase you for this. Once they accept items they are obliged to do due diligence. They are the ones that inspect items and catalogue them.


If an item is sold which later turns out to be fake or damaged in a way not listed in their catalogue, they become liable for any restitution to the purchaser.


Get hold of a copy of their conditions of sale (you should have been given this on the receipt for items when you deposited them) plus their auction catalogue. This should make refund terms abundantly clear.


Do not pay them. They sound like an amateur operation rather than a reputable established firm. If they keep pushing, contact their professional body (IF they are a member of one...).


Regards
D_S

stapeley

The e-mail says, " The customer has had them check and they have been found not to be authentic . We now need to refund the customer and ask you to pay back to us the £--- ."

motorguy

stapeley wrote: »

When I sent this item to them I enclosed this information, stating it had no provenance .

Saying something has no provenance is very different from it being a fake.

If i sell a TAG Heuer watch on ebay and say it has no provenance it means the watch comes with no history but that is still a genuine TAG Heuer watch. That is different from selling a fake watch.

I would go so far as to say that stating an item has "no provenance" is actually indicating its a genuine item, but without history.

I think you've used careful wording when you sent it to auction to avoid stating they were fakes.

As has been said though, chances are the auction house cant enforce the refund however they could - and probably will - ban you.

When i was motor trading i know of occasions whereby trade sellers have had to give refunds to cars sold at auction if they're not as described. Technically they probably couldnt have been forced to but chances are the buyer was a significant customer for the auction house and could flex muscle and the seller didnt want - or couldnt afford - to get a ban.

stapeley

Will be interesting . To be honest , I spent the money already . But they have a weekly auction , and some of my other items have sold at lowly figures. There were no reserves on them ,so I can,t turn around and say " these were worth far more than that , send me more money !"
. First payment would be next Thursday , so I bet they hold onto it .