MSE News: 'Family tax': Dad's outrage as Ryanair tries to seat 3yo away from family

tain

Quite a shame really as it seemed for a second that you might have some further insight above what everyone else has.

But the second I try to direct your reasoning to H&S laws, you call me wrong without merit then stereotypically insult my profession. It leads me to totally discredit anything you've said previously.

fifeken

So the airlines allow parents to sit with their kids, but some parents choose not as it costs. Seems like the parents are the ones putting the kids in danger, if indeed there is any danger.

It's one of the costs of having kids unfortunately. A pretty insignificant one at that.

And now we've got over 450 posts because there's an anecdotal tale of families being split up deliberately. Even the emotion ridden news story that started things off doesn't say it was deliberate - it could just as easily have been that they were the last 3 passengers to check in.

NFH

fifeken wrote: »

So the airlines allow parents to sit with their kids

Not if the parents pay the headline fare. The headline fare should cover the seating of parents with their children for the obvious safety and welfare reasons discussed above. If there was a discount off the headline fare in order to be subject to random scattered seating, and parents chose to avail of that discount, then yes, your argument would be correct. However, if an airline advertises a fare which excludes a surcharge that some passengers inevitably have to pay because of their age, then it the exclusion of the surcharge from the advertised fare serves only to facilitate a misleading indication of price. Discounts and surcharges are very different and do not have the same effect because they result in different headline fares.

fifeken

The headline fare has to include any unavoidable fees and taxes, which doesn't include seating fees. That's European Law - not guidelines or opinions or such like.

NFH

fifeken wrote: »

The headline fare has to include any unavoidable fees and taxes, which doesn't include seating fees. That's European Law - not guidelines or opinions or such like.

Thanks for pointing that out. The "European Law", as you put it, is Article 23 of Regulation (EC) No 1008/2008, which states:

"The final price to be paid shall at all times be indicated and shall include the applicable air fare or air rate as well as all applicable taxes, and charges, surcharges and fees which are unavoidable and foreseeable at the time of publication."

If the seating surcharge is unavoidable for children, then it must be included in the headline fare.

fifeken

NFH wrote: »

If the seating surcharge is unavoidable for children, then it must be included in the headline fare.

It's not included in the headline fare by any of the airlines mentioned in this thread, or in the MSE article.

Clearly not seen as a requirement so no safety risk, or one that is outweighed by the alternatives like checking in early.

NFH

fifeken wrote: »

Clearly not seen as a requirement so no safety risk, or one that is outweighed by the alternatives like checking in early.

This is far from clear. Don't mislead people.

fifeken

NFH wrote: »

This is far from clear. Don't mislead people.

It's a logical conclusion given the facts, so no attempt by me to mislead.

NFH

fifeken wrote: »

It's a logical conclusion given the facts, so no attempt by me to mislead.

It's not logical at all, but subjectively biased. Explain your logic, using facts, not subjective material.

fifeken

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NFH wrote: »

It's not logical at all, but subjectively biased. Explain your logic, using facts, not subjective material.

I do hope you're joking, but if not:

EU Law states the headline fare has to include any unavoidable fees and taxes.

Ryanair's (and every other airline mentioned) headline fares do not include the cost of booking seats.

This cost is avoidable.

No airline is going to knowingly put passengers at risk, so this option (charging for seats) cannot cause such a situation.