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Repeal S21.

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Comments

  • Cornucopia wrote: »
    As a LL I would be quite happy to see S21 weakened or removed... if S8 were strengthened.

    It doesn't make sense to me that it takes as much effort to get rid of a bad tenant as a good one.

    S8, like S21, doesn't take much effort. The biggest factor is time. That's an issue with the capacity of the courts, but it's an issue that could be addressed.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    However, I DO think that S21 powers are too accessible. It really should be a year minimum, rather than six months. Gym and mobile phone contracts are longer than AST security of tenure.

    Many mobile phone contracts are 18, 24 or even more months now - not for any particular reason other than it costs the networks a lot for the smartphones they "give away free" and clawback through the monthly contract, so I'm not sure that's a great analogy.
    Most importantly so are school years.

    Perhaps there should be separate tenancies for people without school-age kids...?
  • AdrianC wrote: »
    Let's imagine... You're a landlord. You want to sell your BTL property, because your own life's changed, you need the money for other things, or you've just decided the landlord life's not for you.

    No s21? You're waiting for your tenants to decide to move. Unless they do one of a prescribed number of things, you cannot - CANNOT - do anything, short of put the place on the market with sitting tenants.

    No sensible landlord gets shot of good tenants without having a damn good reason. Why would you? It's a lottery whether the next ones will be good, and it'll cost you to find out.

    Everybody thinks the lettings game is stacked against "their side". Tenants think they're hard done by. Landlords think tenants have it easy. Remove s21, and the dodgy landlords won't improve - they'll descend even further, resorting to intimidation to get tenants to want to move. Meanwhile, good landlords get the shaft.

    Get a professional game-playing git of a tenant, somebody who knows exactly where to draw the line just _short_ of grounds for s8 - and even the very bestest of landlords will lose the will to live.

    If you want to get out of the game, you sell with a sitting tenant and take the hit. That's just a business decision.

    At the other end of the equation, expanding/new landlords will have the option to purchase property cheaply with a sitting tenant. Again, a business decision.

    If your git of a tenant falls just short of the S8 grounds, they aren't really that much of a git. That's the reason why S8 has specified grounds.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I do agree that many LL may decide to leave the rented sector and it will get smaller, but that isn't such a bad thing, is it?
    Depends if demand shrinks proportionally (or greater).

    If supply shrinks, and demand doesn't, prices go up. There are already people regularly complaining in these forums that they WANT to move from some sub-standard rental rathole, but can't afford to. If they can't afford to move to a different rented place now, they don't have a hope in hell of ever affording to buy, even if prices soften.

    B'sides, what about those who don't want to buy, because their plans just aren't that long term? There are a lot of tenants about who could easily purchase the places they rent, but don't - for whatever reason.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    If you want to get out of the game, you sell with a sitting tenant and take the hit. That's just a business decision.

    At the other end of the equation, expanding/new landlords will have the option to purchase property cheaply with a sitting tenant. Again, a business decision.

    Umm, if everybody's getting out of the BtL game, why would anybody be looking to buy with a sitting tenant...?
    If your git of a tenant falls just short of the S8 grounds, they aren't really that much of a git. That's the reason why S8 has specified grounds.

    Or they're a professional git, the kind that always knows exactly where to draw the line whilst extracting the maximum Michael.
  • AdrianC wrote: »
    Depends if demand shrinks proportionally (or greater).

    If supply shrinks, and demand doesn't, prices go up. There are already people regularly complaining in these forums that they WANT to move from some sub-standard rental rathole, but can't afford to. If they can't afford to move to a different rented place now, they don't have a hope in hell of ever affording to buy, even if prices soften.

    B'sides, what about those who don't want to buy, because their plans just aren't that long term? There are a lot of tenants about who could easily purchase the places they rent, but don't - for whatever reason.

    Demand will fall at the same rate as supply because those properties will still exist, just under a different tenure. Lanlords sell, former tenants buy. Fewer landlords and fewer tenants.

    But, as long as there is a demand for rentals, someone will be there to satisfy it.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Demand will fall at the same rate as supply because those properties will still exist, just under a different tenure. Lanlords sell, former tenants buy. Fewer landlords and fewer tenants.
    So there won't be lots of landlords deciding to put a For Sale sign up when a tenant leaves, knowing there's no other way of easily getting vacant possession before exchange? And that won't lead to a bunch of empty properties sitting on the market?
  • AdrianC wrote: »
    Umm, if everybody's getting out of the BtL game, why would anybody be looking to buy with a sitting tenant...?

    It's not going to be implemented overnight. There would be a very lengthy lead up which will give ample opportunity for those who wish to bail out to do so.
    AdrianC wrote: »
    Or they're a professional git, the kind that always knows exactly where to draw the line whilst extracting the maximum Michael.

    If they fall short of S8, they really aren't that much of a git. I would hope that frightening most of the "accidental" landlords off will see better use of S8 anyway.
  • franklee
    franklee Posts: 3,867 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    edited 11 June 2015 at 12:22AM
    AdrianC wrote: »
    No sensible landlord gets shot of good tenants without having a damn good reason. Why would you? It's a lottery whether the next ones will be good, and it'll cost you to find out.
    The problem is when choosing a property to rent the tenant cannot know for sure if his landlord is an accidental landlord waiting to sell, is in it for the short, or long term. My first landlord had tried to sell before, failed so let. He was always going to sell sooner or later. My second landlord let through a letting agent who assured me the landlord was an investor in it for the long term. His idea of long term turned out to be a few years before he sold up which in house moving terms I consider quite short. Both sold and for the record I was a damn good tenant, rent paid on time without fail, all property inspections passed with no issues, all deposits returned in full. To be fair both landlords did the few small repairs needed in a reasonable manner.

    I think the problem is that real in-it-for-the-long-term landlords underestimate how hard it can be for a tenant to find a genuine one of these so think the tenant given the S21 was likely at fault somehow. In my areas there are a lot of small time landlords dabbling in the market using letting agents so the tenant gets no feel for the landlord's stance as they have no direct contact with the landlord.
  • AdrianC wrote: »
    So there won't be lots of landlords deciding to put a For Sale sign up when a tenant leaves, knowing there's no other way of easily getting vacant possession before exchange? And that won't lead to a bunch of empty properties sitting on the market?

    There may well be a disruptive transitional period. However, I see it working in exactly the same way as previous HA's and amendments when introduced. Tenancies granted prior to the repeal of S21 can still use S21. Those granted after, can't.
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