Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

shinytop

ABrass said:

shinytop said:

QrizB said:

shinytop said:

I'm all for RE but in the UK (not sure if the US is different) I worry about times with no wind and sun.  Apart from undefined and unpriced 'storage', what are the serious, proven domestically produced zero emission options to ff and nuclear?     

Tidal is reliable, it happens on a regular frequency and can be predicted for months ahead. And we have some of the biggest/strongest tidal streams in Europe.

France has had a tidal barrage since 1966. I saw it on a school trip in the 80s, it's quite impressive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_Tidal_Power_Station

Tide is reliable but it's not really proven at scale.  The installation in France is impressive but has a few environmental issues.  The slightly bigger project in S Korea also has problems

https://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/south-koreas-plans-for-tidal-power-when-a-green-solution-creates-more-problems/

Is there really nothing else?  

Until proven, demonstrated and installed medium term green storage is available then that will have to be fossil fuels. And that's ok.

Well it's what we do now so it will definitely work.  The first convincing solution I've seen here. 

EDIT - Ah, maybe not.  Another record high

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/20/russia-cuts-gas-supplies-to-europe-as-temperatures-drop-a75881

QrizB

(I don't think this has been previously reported here, apologies if it has)

There's an article on Current News regarding a recent BEIS study into Electrification of Heat (ie. heat pumps):
https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/heat-pumps-suitable-for-all-properties-finds-electrification-of-heat-project

Heat pumps are suitable for all property types and architectural eras a new study by the Electrification of Heat (EoH) project has found.
Funded by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS), the project looked at homes from Victorian mid-terraces to pre-WWII semis and a 1960s block of flats to establish if heat pumps can effectively heat a myriad of buildings
According to the Energy Systems Catapult – which was appointed to lead the Management Contractor consortium of the EoH – the project's findings thus far show that the suggestions that there are “unsuitable” homes for heat pumps is not supported by experience or data.

Did anyone here get one of the 750 free heat pumps that the project installed and monitored?

More on the project here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrification-of-heat-demonstration-project-successful-bids

And here, including case studies:
https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/electrification-of-heat-demonstration/

I downloaded one of the case studies; it was full of positive waves ...

... but a bit (OK a lot) light on details.

There doesn't seem to be any reporting yet on performance; hopefully this is just waiting on data collection and analysis.

shinytop

QrizB said:

(I don't think this has been previously reported here, apologies if it has)

There's an article on Current News regarding a recent BEIS study into Electrification of Heat (ie. heat pumps):
https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/heat-pumps-suitable-for-all-properties-finds-electrification-of-heat-project

Heat pumps are suitable for all property types and architectural eras a new study by the Electrification of Heat (EoH) project has found.
Funded by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS), the project looked at homes from Victorian mid-terraces to pre-WWII semis and a 1960s block of flats to establish if heat pumps can effectively heat a myriad of buildings
According to the Energy Systems Catapult – which was appointed to lead the Management Contractor consortium of the EoH – the project's findings thus far show that the suggestions that there are “unsuitable” homes for heat pumps is not supported by experience or data.

Did anyone here get one of the 750 free heat pumps that the project installed and monitored?

More on the project here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrification-of-heat-demonstration-project-successful-bids

And here, including case studies:
https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/electrification-of-heat-demonstration/

I downloaded one of the case studies; it was full of positive waves ...

... but a bit (OK a lot) light on details.

There doesn't seem to be any reporting yet on performance; hopefully this is just waiting on data collection and analysis.

Nope haven't seen before, very interesting.  Performance data would be even more interesting.  

I suspect that whoever was running this scheme put the time and effort into installing and setting up the ASHPs properly and educating the users.  That's something that is missing in a lot of other cases.  Also, if they had any sense they'd avoid really unsuitable properties (and users) so it's probably not a random sample.  Encouraging though.

QrizB

shinytop said:

I suspect that whoever was running this scheme put the time and effort into installing and setting up the ASHPs properly and educating the users.  That's something that is missing in a lot of other cases.

The case study I downoaded did say "The installers came back to the couple's house a few times after [installation] to complete the setup of the heat pump" so yes, they appear to have put a bit of effort into getting everything optimised. Also "[the user] found that the new heat pump took no time getting used to as it is very easy to adjust".

The particular unit in that case study was a Mitsubishi Ecodan, so the ease of use might be a reflection of Mitsubishi's control pack.

Reed_Richards

QrizB said:
Did anyone here get one of the 750 free heat pumps that the project installed and monitored?

@k_bagpuss possibly?   

 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78576571#Comment_78576571

shinytop

Saw an article about this in the morning 'paper'

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sci-tech/can-solar-panels-on-highways-accelerate-the-supply-of-green-energy-/47121004?linkType=guid&utm_campaign=swi-rss&utm_source=gn&utm_medium=rss&utm_content=o

ABrass

shinytop said:

ABrass said:

shinytop said:

QrizB said:

shinytop said:

I'm all for RE but in the UK (not sure if the US is different) I worry about times with no wind and sun.  Apart from undefined and unpriced 'storage', what are the serious, proven domestically produced zero emission options to ff and nuclear?     

Tidal is reliable, it happens on a regular frequency and can be predicted for months ahead. And we have some of the biggest/strongest tidal streams in Europe.

France has had a tidal barrage since 1966. I saw it on a school trip in the 80s, it's quite impressive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_Tidal_Power_Station

Tide is reliable but it's not really proven at scale.  The installation in France is impressive but has a few environmental issues.  The slightly bigger project in S Korea also has problems

https://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/south-koreas-plans-for-tidal-power-when-a-green-solution-creates-more-problems/

Is there really nothing else?  

Until proven, demonstrated and installed medium term green storage is available then that will have to be fossil fuels. And that's ok.

Well it's what we do now so it will definitely work.  The first convincing solution I've seen here. 

EDIT - Ah, maybe not.  Another record high

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/12/20/russia-cuts-gas-supplies-to-europe-as-temperatures-drop-a75881

No one ever said fossil fuels are the cheapest source of power.

Oh, hang on, they did. Sorry.

NigeWick

shinytop said:

I'm all for RE but in the UK (not sure if the US is different) I worry about times with no wind and sun.  Apart from undefined and unpriced 'storage', what are the serious, proven domestically produced zero emission options to ff and nuclear?     

I believe the answer is over production and storage. It isn't very often that the wind isn't blowing somewhere around the country or coast. Tidal can be part of the renewable mix too. And solar on every roof in the land would add quite a bit even on winter days if it's sunny. The amount of money HMGov want to spend of our taxes on nuclear generation would pay for a lot more wind & storage far quicker than nuclear could offer. When our storage is full and production more than required, we can sell the rest abroad.

QrizB

Reed_Richards said:

QrizB said:
Did anyone here get one of the 750 free heat pumps that the project installed and monitored?

@k_bagpuss possibly?   
 https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78576571#Comment_78576571

It would be good to hear more from @k_bagpuss about how the install went & how they're getting on with it now the weather's turned colder!

Exiled_Tyke

NigeWick said:

shinytop said:

I'm all for RE but in the UK (not sure if the US is different) I worry about times with no wind and sun.  Apart from undefined and unpriced 'storage', what are the serious, proven domestically produced zero emission options to ff and nuclear?     

I believe the answer is over production and storage. It isn't very often that the wind isn't blowing somewhere around the country or coast. Tidal can be part of the renewable mix too. And solar on every roof in the land would add quite a bit even on winter days if it's sunny. The amount of money HMGov want to spend of our taxes on nuclear generation would pay for a lot more wind & storage far quicker than nuclear could offer. When our storage is full and production more than required, we can sell the rest abroad.

I do really really want to believe in this but there is such a long way to go.  The last week has been pretty gloomy (I've made hardly any leccy myself) and every time I've checked Gridwatch wind has been reporting around a 3% contribution at best.  

So does that mean we need a week's worth of storage facility  in the UK, we need to the solar field project in West Africa (now!), or are ever going to be dependent on gas and nuclear (I really hope not!) ?