Mystery pipe in garden

sghughes42

I'm in the process of digging a trench in my garden so I can improve the drainage when I came across what looks like a 15mm copper pipe running about 300mm under the surface.

Is there any way to tell if this is gas or water? It is heading in the direction of the kitchen but not directly at the gas meter cupboard. Both water and gas come in fairly close together in the kitchen and I've only uncovered about 6" of it and won't be uncovering any more - unless I have to!

This seems very shallow no matter what type of pipe it is. Especially if water I'm very worried as the drainage trench will create a much higher chance of it freezing. Are there guidelines as to how deep these supply pipes should be and can I ask the utility company to replace the pipe if it is too shallow?

The house dates from the 50s so before the time gas pipes would be PE but I don't know what they used before that...

PheoUK

Our original water main was 15mm copper. Bit deeper than that though. But then ours is 1970s

I'd run some water grab the pipe and see if you can feel the water running personally.

Is it before or after your stopcock?

Furts

If your pipe is a water supply then the responsibility depends on which side it is from the stopcock. But being copper it is likely to be a private pipe that is your responsibility.

I have come across fifties houses with copper pipe mains water supply. Some of the copper was poor quality and I know of it failing 35 years ago. Check yours for signs of pitting.

The Regulations require a depth of 750mm cover for frost protection, and this rule has existed for decades.

Black alkathene water supply pipe came in way back. This was years before the current blue MDPE pipe, which I think was introduced around 35 years ago. This was tougher, and more resistant to damage. Hence your pipe might be gas. You would need to do some careful digging of trial holes to establish what your pipe is.

zaax

If its in your garden and its supplying you its your problem, as utilities responsibilities end at the garden gate or even in the middle of the road.

300mm in not abnormal, 20mm is not abnormal either.

Turn the taps on hard and and hold the pipe to see in you can feel the water running, or put your ear to it. What every you find (if you do) you will have to work around it.

Alter_ego

zaax wrote: »

If its in your garden and its supplying you its your problem, as utilities responsibilities end at the garden gate or even in the middle of the road.

True if it's water, but gas responsibility ends at the meter.

tea-bag

We had this with a pipe when digging my dads extension footings back in the 80's it was a clay waste pipe. we dug around it I then fell on it by accident and broke it! My dad went berserk on shining a torch down it found it went nowhere and was a bit of junk left buy the original builders!

Dan-Dan

I was going to say that , when doing some garden landscaping last year , we found various bits of pipe , that turned out to be random lengths lobbed there by original builders , best to try to establish if it is that scenario before panicking

sghughes42

Thanks all, looks like I'll have to do more digging...

From what I've uncovered so far it points roughly at the stopcock in the street in one direction and towards the gas meter cupboard in the other so could be either!

Daft thing is the company I work for deals in pipes for utilities but no-one knows what was used that far back.

Presumably if it is water I can just dig a trench beside it and get a plumber to connect a new bit of pipe in deeper?

If gas, are there any regulations as to depth? If so then I guess I could ask them to move it, if not then I'd have to pay?

We are planning to get the garage converted to a kitchen/diner in the near future and would ideally want the services moving from the existing kitchen to that so it may not be such an issue to just leave it as is....

Crinkmeister

Does it have a plastic coating? Gas is usually yellow, water is blue. As suggested above, you can hear water flow if it's a live water pipe.

sghughes42

No coating, just looks like a bit of 15mm copper pipe. Gas and water pipe is coloured these days but PE wasn't available in the 50s.

Not able to check for water flow tonight - the only water I'd hear is the pouring rain... Hopefully tomorrow.

Daft other thought, what does the underground electricity supply look like? I'd guess they use some sort of armoured cable but would the armouring be on the outside or beneath a plastic (silicone) sleeve? Looking at the pipe again it isn't very level, there is a noticeable kink up in it...

(As someone else commented, probably just a bit of rubbish someone discarded!)

sghughes42

Just to follow-up to this. The pipe I found was just a bit of discarded plumbing.

However....

I have found the gas service connection... I was carrying on the trench and further around at about the same depth I found a yellow PE pipe headed directly at the meter box. This ties in with what a neighbour said, that the pipes had been replaced with plastic in the past.

Now, are there regulations as to depth? I've found guidelines which suggest 375mm and also say the pipe should be buried in sand and covered with a sort of tape to make it obvious you are about to hit it - none of this was the case here.

As this is before the meter I'm guessing National Grid or the like are responsible for rectifying it, but the question is who pays? If it is me I'll just cover the pipe up again and forget I ever found it. If they are responsible for rectifying past mistakes then I'll ask them to do so before I get any further with landscaping the garden.

I did try and ask them this question but they asked for an address before they'd reply - for obvious reasons I don't want to give this as if it is me that pays then there will be no way out of it...