Is it really that hard?

dktreesea

BobQ wrote: »

Serious question. What part (if any!) did you play in making DD think that she could escape living a more modest lifestyle first?

Not me. I blame her all so positive school, telling her she could be anything, do anything, the world was at her feet, the world was her oyster blah blah blah. Any attempt to counteract this with a bit of reality was met with accusations that I was "soooo negative" and why couldn't she have it all, and do better than us?


Well sure, she could, if she spends all the years we spent in higher education first, not to mention very competitive workplaces thereafter. I try to point out to her we didn't even buy a place until we were in our 30s and even then it took us another 20 years to get anywhere near what we wanted in accommodation. But that gets met with "That's you. What makes you think I want to drag it out the way you did?"


Oh yes, and she "doesn't like the way we work" - says we work too hard and "not smart". Ho hum. Work is hard in general.

dktreesea

Samsonite1 wrote: »

Another aspect of house prices popped into my head when I was catching up with friends who have moved up North from London in recent years.

It seems that a number of companies are offering to equal or beat London salaries to entice people from London to work and relocate. These are generally more senior positions or highly specialised. This has happened to three colleagues in the past couple of years - moving to Manchester and Liverpool. The draw of buying that huge house in a good neighbourhood to replace their little flat in London seemed to be big (and in some cases, they wanted a big family home). I (and many others) have also been offered such a deal in cities like Manchester and Liverpool, but the majority of my large family are based in the South, so it does not really appeal.

Does anyone think this could be a problem if this kind of activity was more widespread? I.e. if people on fairly high London salaries take jobs in cheaper cities, this would push up the prices in those cities? I would be interested to know what anyone else thinks. I am not so much talking about people looking elsewhere to live but actually London workers being enticed to other cities...

Plenty of Londoners move up to Scotland every day, mostly to the Highlands, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and the Scottish Borders. It's had a huge impact on prices in those areas these past few years.

Samsonite1

dktreesea wrote: »

Plenty of Londoners move up to Scotland every day, mostly to the Highlands, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and the Scottish Borders. It's had a huge impact on prices in those areas these past few years.

Thanks - it seems obvious really but I do not get a lot of perspective from anyone down here in the lowly South!

You could say it is nobody's fault arguably, but should companies not have more incentives or make more effort to hire people who are not explicitly from London? They will say that anyone can apply, but this is head-hunting, so they are actively pursuing (lazily in my opinion) the many skilled people of a large city because they know that the lottery ticket has slightly better odds there (rubbish analogy alert!).

Maybe it is just a reflection of the overall housing problem and how it filters out to all reaches of the country. But in any case, it seems that areas outside London would benefit if London workers with big salaries did not come and push prices up. On the one hand you can say it is purely because of crazy London prices or on the other hand you could say that it seems ridiculous that a company outside of London cannot find senior people outside of London and pay them a fitting salary, but not a London salary.

I almost feel that it takes a smaller number of highly paid people to make the odds worse for a larger number of less highly paid people.

*Robin Hood mode off*

lisyloo

Does anyone think this could be a problem if this kind of activity was more widespread?

Well it might raise house prices, but it would also bring employment and money to those areas e.g. restaurants, delis, farm shops, car wash, hairdressers, so overall I'd say it was a positive thing.
As someone who gets stepped on or elbowed in the t*ts virtually every single day on the tube (note to self - get on your bike), I'd be all favour, although it's going to take a lot to reduce congestion in London. Make some space and it'll become attractive to others.

or make more effort to hire people who are not explicitly from London?

You say it's lazy but recruiting the right people is really quite a difficult job.

But in any case, it seems that areas outside London would benefit if London workers with big salaries did not come and push prices up.

Why do you say that? They'll bring a lot most besides.

say that it seems ridiculous that a company outside of London cannot find senior people outside of London and pay them a fitting salary

We've been looking for a skilled person outside London for months and haven't found ayone yet. That costs the business time and the business is affected whilst we don't have someone in that position. We may afterall have to go to plan B and get someone in our London office. The last guy commuted from Northampton 2 days a week which was about a 2 hour trip.
The trouble is that my employer might choose to get someone in Banglaore instead for 5th/6th of the price. I very much like my Indian colleagues but due to all the issues with working with people remotely (language, timezone, not knowing where they are) I'd rather have someone locally in the office.

We do however only insist people come into office 5 days a month, so we doing our bit to reduce congestion and it does mean people can (and do) live further out from London.

Samsonite1

lisyloo wrote: »

Well it might raise house prices, but it would also bring employment and money to those areas e.g. restaurants, delis, farm shops, car wash, hairdressers, so overall I'd say it was a positive thing.
As someone who gets stepped on or elbowed in the t*ts virtually every single day on the tube (note to self - get on your bike), I'd be all favour, although it's going to take a lot to reduce congestion in London. Make some space and it'll become attractive to others.

We do however only insist people come into office 5 days a month, so we doing our bit to reduce congestion and it does mean people can (and do) live further out from London.

It wasn't me elbowing you! I avoid the tube and walk when I get off the train - even if it's raining it's more pleasant than cramming onto the tube!

I am certainly a fan of more flexible working - choosing when to go into the office and even breaking from the 9-5 timescales, makes you feel a lot more in control of your destiny. You can even half your commuting costs if you get a train after 9am. I can get in the office for 9:30 by getting a 9:03 train and it halves the cost and is a quicker and quieter train.

lisyloo

I agree that walking and cycling are more pleasant but I'm sure there are many people who cover distances that aren't suitable for walking or siply don't have time on top of their train journey.

Flexible working is great, but of course not everyone can do it.
The people that pick up the rubbish, drive the trains, work on checkouts, serve at bars and restaurants do actually have to be there.
Some office jobs also have security requirements.

I'm all for it, but I think those that can already do, so there isn't much improvement to come from that. It's not a new idea.

Samsonite1

lisyloo wrote: »

Flexible working is great, but of course not everyone can do it.
The people that pick up the rubbish, drive the trains, work on checkouts, serve at bars and restaurants do actually have to be there.
Some office jobs also have security requirements.

Of course flexible working is more for office work, but truth be told I would prefer a more outdoors job if I could get well paid without having to retrain for years... so probably unlikely to happen!

dktreesea

Is London really relevant to people born in the UK? If the Migration Observatory are to be believed, hardly any Brits live there, just 7.9 people out of every 100 in 2013. (Source; http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migrants-uk-overview)


Yes, housing in London is super expensive, but then hardly any of us want to live there, - and presumably most of those that do already have their home - so does it really matter?


Though, having said that, a friend of ours lives in Dover, 1 hour from London on a high speed train. His cost per year to get into work? A very expensive (to me) just over £5k per year!! Lucky he works only a good 20 minutes walk from the station he arrives at. I did suggest to him he could always work in Heathrow, so he could experience the London tube at rush hour.


He was saying to me that Dover isn't that cheap for housing, though I thought this looked a bargain:
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/37102135?search_identifier=4ce8d918407cb1811de6b184a22b2a4e#5Mqs1ihEAWMKZmd0.97


In spite of the house prices, I would rather move jobs than give up £5k after tax of my income each year not to mention 2 to 3 hours travelling to and from work each day (by the time you factor in getting to the station and waiting for trains). I understand why he lives in Dover, but why work in London? Surely the south east has loads of work?

Cornucopia

dktreesea wrote: »

Is London really relevant to people born in the UK? If the Migration Observatory are to be believed, hardly any Brits live there, just 7.9 people out of every 100 in 2013. (Source; http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migrants-uk-overview)

I have a feeling that may be a slightly misleading statistic.

The more relevant one is the one that says that 36% of the London population is "foreign born", although even then, "foreign born" is not the same as "not British".

lisyloo

I understand why he lives in Dover, but why work in London? Surely the south east has loads of work?

Depends what line of work you're in.
Clearly being a plumber is different to an investment banker.

Many people have ties to family, friends etc. in some cases providing care, so lots of people aren't prepared to just "up sticks" from where their extended family are especially if they get free child care or provide care to parents.

We are between 45 and 50 and we haven't found loads of work outside London, so it depends on your skillset and age.