ticket on window from PPC

MrTom85

I've just been having a read up on the stickied posts at the top and think I understand what I need to be doing but just after a little confirmation and tailored advice so to speak.

So, received a window ticket today from "Corporate Services Parking Management" citing "parked after expiry of paid items". It was a paid side of the road car park with no ANPR and had a ticket, just delayed in getting back. Not by much but over the 10 minutes grace I've heard bandied about.

£100 "fine" (or even the £60 they so graciously offer) seems excessive for £1 ticket for an hour, do I have a leg to stand on in appealing?

Marktheshark

They are POPLA so wait for the Notice to Keeper and come back

MrTom85

Ok, so I'd been away for a week or so and the NTK came through while I was away, gutted as I was hoping they would forget. But we are where we are!

Having read through the newbies thread and searched other cases from CSPM, I see it stated on here that they have to post the NTK to you within 56 days. Is this a hard and fast rule? I ask, as by the dates on the form they sent from "date of event" to "date of issue", they are over the 56 days - 60 days specifically. Does this have any bearing on things?

If it isn't, I have read through similar posts and most useful one that I can see is one by JamersPad.

I have drummed up the mail to their appeals using the sites template

Date
02/08/2015

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. XXXXX

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum is disproportionate, does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
b) The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
c). There is no evidence that you have any interest in the land. I will complain to the landowner about your aggressive ticketing.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability.
e). I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter, so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty.

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

(with name and postal address included, with read and delivery receipt, an address CC'd in for proof of sending and a screenshot to be doubly sure)

I'm expecting them to reject this and as such provide me with a POPLA code with which to launch an appeal through POPLA.
Have I got it right so far?

The_Deep

How can they rely on PoFA it they are out or time? How can you withdraw from a contract which has been completed? They are BPA, why are you mentioning IPC/ISA.? What is this "drop hands" nonsense?

I think that there are far better appeal statements out there, look at some of the winners.

MrTom85

That was taken from the template on the newbies thread, this is why I posted asking to ensure I had it right before sending.

What would you suggest then?

Fruitcake

MrTom85 wrote: »

Ok, so I'd been away for a week or so and the NTK came through while I was away, gutted as I was hoping they would forget. But we are where we are!

Having read through the newbies thread and searched other cases from CSPM, I see it stated on here that they have to post the NTK to you within 56 days. Is this a hard and fast rule? I ask, as by the dates on the form they sent from "date of event" to "date of issue", they are over the 56 days - 60 days specifically. Does this have any bearing on things?

If it isn't, I have read through similar posts and most useful one that I can see is one by JamersPad.

I have drummed up the mail to their appeals using the sites template


(with name and postal address included, with read and delivery receipt, an address CC'd in for proof of sending and a screenshot to be doubly sure)

I'm expecting them to reject this and as such provide me with a POPLA code with which to launch an appeal through POPLA.
Have I got it right so far?

It looks good so far.


The bit about the NTK arriving by day 56 is covered in the NEWBIES thread, "the very fact a PPC then forgets to send you a NTK by day 56, gives you a slam-dunk winning point at POPLA stage!"


So, even if the PPC reject your initial appeal, you will win at PoPLA because a non POFA compliant NTK means the scammers can only go after the driver, and since you won't be telling them who that is, they are stuffed. This is why it is so important that you don't let on who that was.


Make sure you keep the NTK safe as you will need to provide a copy PoPLA if it gets that far.

Fruitcake

The_Deep wrote: »

How can they rely on PoFA it they are out or time? How can you withdraw from a contract which has been completed? They are BPA, why are you mentioning IPC/ISA.? What is this "drop hands" nonsense?

I think that there are far better appeal statements out there, look at some of the winners.

MrTom85 wrote: »

That was taken from the template on the newbies thread, this is why I posted asking to ensure I had it right before sending.

What would you suggest then?

It is indeed a direct copy of the template appeal in the NEWBIES thread. The idea is to get a PoPLA code so it should be OK for that purpose.

MrTom85

Great, so on the sending the above; if/when I receive the PPC rejection and a POPLA code is received, I should get the POPLA appeal in as quick as possible and should be fairly confident of it being overturned? That's good news then!

If these rules they have to follow are known and so many are successfully overturning these charges, why do they not learn and get their replies perfected? I'm glad they haven't, but it just seems illogical!

Fruitcake

MrTom85 wrote: »

Great, so on the sending the above; if/when I receive the PPC rejection and a POPLA code is received, I should get the POPLA appeal in as quick as possible and should be fairly confident of it being overturned? That's good news then!

If these rules they have to follow are known and so many are successfully overturning these charges, why do they not learn and get their replies perfected? I'm glad they haven't, but it just seems illogical!

If the appeal is rejected and you get a PoPLA code, check that it is valid on the Parking Cowboys website. If it isn't valid, or you don't get one, complain to the BPA and DVLA.


Don't send the PoPLA appeal straight away as that gives the PPC time to rebut and regroup. The NEWBIES thread tells you when to appeal which is (I think) just before the deadline.


People often pay up as soon as they get a PCN, many pay up if the original appeal is rejected, many people admit who was driving thus making it harder to appeal. The PPCs make enough money without having to spend too much time getting their wording correct.
It's also a bit like computer virus writers and anti-virus programmers. Something will work until people like those on this site can find a method to counter it. It takes time for the scammer to think of new wording but they are still raking in money whilst they fine tune the scam, then off we go on another round of trying to outwit them with a new set of words.

MrTom85

That explanation makes sense, I guess till the masses at large wake-up and stop paying so readily, then they will keep the status quo. So 28 days deadline, I imagine that it from when they action my appeal and send out the POPLA code? But looking at the code checker site, it should tell me when I have the code. Either way, guess it's a waiting game now (again!)

Thanks for the help, will update the thread on the outcome.

Fruitcake

MrTom85 wrote: »

That explanation makes sense, I guess till the masses at large wake-up and stop paying so readily, then they will keep the status quo. So 28 days deadline, I imagine that it from when they action my appeal and send out the POPLA code? But looking at the code checker site, it should tell me when I have the code. Either way, guess it's a waiting game now (again!)

Thanks for the help, will update the thread on the outcome.

Yes, just wait and see what happens. Don't poke the PPC if they don't respond within the appeal deadline as this gives you more ammunition if they make a c0ckup.
Have a look at the POPLA Decisions Sticky thread if you get a rejection and code. Pick one that suits your situation best and modify it to suit.