New job scenario causing First Direct to change their rules in their favour

Angreal

Hi everyone,

Frequent reader but fairly infrequent poster looking for advice please!

I have recently applied for a mortgage through First Direct (FD) as a brand new customer of theirs. Everything was going more or less ok (few snags...)

In my first appointment I asked the adviser what getting a new job would mean for the application process. I was told clearly that I could not draw down in the probation period of a new job so wouldn't be able to apply for the mortgage if that was my position. I asked as I had been invited to an interview just that day. Based on the advice here, I turned an interview down for a great opportunity which was a shame but my house was to be my priority at the time.

I phoned FD and agreed to pay the £950 booking fee for the rate shortly after the appointment, the mortgage process then began. The fee is non-refundable unless the mortgage is declined.
*Note here: My credit card has NOT been charged this fee to date, so I am not sure if I have officially/contractually paid or agreed to pay this fee.

I asked FD on a few more occasions about the 'probation' rule they had in place. After a bit of research and some reading here I came to understand it's quite common place in banks and I understand why. A friend told me the same who was in a similar situation.
I was repeatedly given the same answer each time by FD i.e. 'no'

So, a few weeks down the line, my situation changed and I accepted a new job. As I had been told 'no' by FD repeatedly I went to my existing lender Halifax who to my delight (despite a less appealing interest rate) agreed they would still allow me to get a new mortgage with them, there was just a couple of simple extra steps to go through. So, I booked the rate with Halifax and also paid the valuation fee: totaling £995

When advising FD about my new situation and confirming closure of the application and new bank accounts due to the change of circumstances, they changed their stance on not considering me for a mortgage and decided they could potentially go ahead still. This came as a surprise and I challenged this, as this was not what they told me just days before nor was it ever mentioned in the mortgage appointments as a possible way forward with an advisor when I brought up the scenario - it was always a very clear "no"

It sounded as though they knew they were about to lose me as a customer so were going against their own rules to get the money out of me.
FD advised they needed my first wage slip from the new job to approve me. this isn't at all practical as it would be the end of July when I got the pay slip. As we are pretty much ready to exchange contracts for the sale, I cannot wait 2.5 months - I would lose the sale.

I had a couple of conversations with the mortgage advisor manager since, who said he listened to some phone calls which all have me agreeing the fee is non-refundable. I can't dispute that I agreed to it and I am not trying to.
I was told by the mortgage team (between 2 conversations with the same manager less than 2 hours apart) the original 'no' response once again. I made a point of ringing at the time to get myself proof and to challenge the advisor on their 'change of hear' once again. I even have this proof on a recorded phone call to First Direct. The manager told me that the answer I received was irrelevant as I was just 'giving a random scenario' - the reality is that it was a very clear and straight forward scenario that up until now had a clear and definite answer.

My dispute is that I made a decision to start the mortgage process with another bank based on the information I had been supplied with by First Direct on multiple occasions. They then seem to have changed their own rules to suit the situation after repeatedly saying 'no' to me. I would have had no problem in them considering me still if they had advised this from the outset when I first brought up the new job scenario. If they had not repeatedly misinformed me I wouldn't have had any need to approach my existing provider and start the process with them and incur the associated fees of £995

So questions off the back of this:

1) What is the official line when it comes for paying for something? Is it when the money is charged to you or is it when you agree to make the payment (and subsequently give my card details in my case) - I ask as I have NOT yet been charged / handed over the money they say I have to pay.
2) Is it unreasonable to request FD not pursue me for the booking fee given the advice they gave me on multiple occasions led me to spending money with another provider and them seemingly changing their mind? Can any part of the repeated mis-advice be used to make them just leave me alone?

Please help!

Thrugelmir

Angreal wrote: »

I even have this proof on a recorded phone call to First Direct.

That's inadmissable unless you told them you were going to record the conversation before hand.

Angreal

I did. They also recorded the call so accessible independently by both parties.

nearlyrich

I tried but there is far too much detail I lost the thread can you summarise in no more than 6 bullet points as my boss would say?

Angreal

I was trying to give a full picture heh. So...

- applied for a mortgage with FD who repeatedly told me they wouldn't approve me if I was on probation in a new job
- few weeks later got a new job after agreeing to pay the mortgage booking fee
- due to their probation stance (saying they'd decline me which results in a refund of the fee) I went to another provider and paid their fees
- FD changed their stance when I tell them and decide they now WILL approve me and want the fee regardless. Not a single mentioned of this until I wanted out
- now have fees paid with 2 banks - want FD to agree not to charge me due to forcing me to approach another bank due to apparent mis-information
- please see 2 questions at the end of my original post (can't copy and paste it for some reason...)

Ok so longish bullet points

Ta

ACG

Woah! Loong post for something that has not and may not happen.

If they charge it just tell them they gave you dud info and you want it refunding as a goodwill gesture. If they do not refund you will make a complaint and take it to the FoS.

Dont get drawn into legal standings and all that rubbish, the FoS go off what is morally right as well as legally (which is better for you).

Angreal

I'm pretty sure I'm liable for the booking fee money as I agreed to pay FD before my circumstances changed.

Making the decision to pay another lender was based on their duff information so the good will gesture could be a good one so thanks for that idea.

Ill run it by the FOS too.

Thanks

Mulder00

You tried to pre-empt a situation which didn't happen - that is your mistake, not theirs. Either you should have waited for them to decline you if you really wanted your money back or you should have confirmed that in the circumstances you find yourself, they would have refunded your booking fee.

amnblog

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That's inadmissable unless you told them you were going to record the conversation before hand.

Get real Thrug - we are not going into the High Court - merely getting the Lender nervous enough to pay up.


The moral of the story.


Use a broker if you are changing jobs.

Angreal

Mulder00 wrote: »

You tried to pre-empt a situation which didn't happen - that is your mistake, not theirs. Either you should have waited for them to decline you if you really wanted your money back or you should have confirmed that in the circumstances you find yourself, they would have refunded your booking fee.

I see what you're saying and this crossed my mind. My argument to FD is they repeatedly told me that a probation period is a no go for a mortgage. On this basis I shouldn't have needed to confirm with them yet again though yes I should have done.
I paid another lender as a direct result of information given repeatedly by FD. FD then changed their story and started giving conflicting messages.

I spoke to the FOS this morning. They're writing to FD formally for comment.

P.S - unrelated event - my friend sent FD some ID certified by the same accountant that did mine. They declined my friends saying the person hadn't been chartered long enough to certify it yet accepted mine a month before. I do wonder what they're playing at...

Angreal

Just had a call from FD, they've upheld my complaint and are releasing me from the mortgage and fees. Huzzah!1

Thanks for your input everyone