Landlord requesting additional payments when leaving flat

DaMint

Hi,

I was wondering if it was possible to get some advice, just on where I stand.

I have rented a property for 3 years. We found the flat through a letting agent. In our contract, it said we (the tenants) were liable to pay (among other things) the check in inventory fee. The landlady has agreed to pay the inventory fee on check out. So we thought this was fair (as fees go) and paid.

Everything passes by well for two years. Then the landlord says he is no longer using the letting agent (who collected the rent - didn't manage the property for repairs etc). Instead, we can set up a contract directly. Everything would remain the same except we would be required to give a longer notice period. Rent etc remains the same. This is in writing. So we said yes, that's fine, and signed the contract - it was one of the those internet job pro forma templates.

My husband and I decided to move and gave two months notice. As this was over the bank holiday and we had plans, we couldn't allow viewings. The landlord said then our notice wasn't valid until the 10th because he couldn't access the property to start marketing it. We weren't happy but figured that it would probably go quickly so accepted a longer notice period.

Now the landlord says we must also pay for the check out inventory cost, because this is included in the new contract we signed.

I've refused on the basis that we had an original agreement stating we would pay the incoming fee if he paid the outgoing. Supporting that is email correspondence directly from the landlord that says the original terms of the contract remain the same, bar the increase in notice period from 1 to 2 months. In addition, we have given a longer notice period to be accommodating and found out that the landlord used old photos to begin marketing the house before the 10th as agreed.

Sorry for the huge post, but do I actually have any grounds to refuse? I have asked for my tenancy deposit certificate because we never received it and keep getting told the money was lodged with TDS and I don't need a reference number. But now I'm starting to panic that he'll just withhold our deposit or take the fee out of that.

Any help, as always, would be much appreciated

Guest101

DaMint wrote: »

Hi,

I was wondering if it was possible to get some advice, just on where I stand.

I have rented a property for 3 years. We found the flat through a letting agent. In our contract, it said we (the tenants) were liable to pay (among other things) the check in inventory fee. The landlady has agreed to pay the inventory fee on check out. So we thought this was fair (as fees go) and paid.

Everything passes by well for two years. Then the landlord says he is no longer using the letting agent (who collected the rent - didn't manage the property for repairs etc). Instead, we can set up a contract directly. Everything would remain the same except we would be required to give a longer notice period. Rent etc remains the same. This is in writing. So we said yes, that's fine, and signed the contract - it was one of the those internet job pro forma templates.

My husband and I decided to move and gave two months notice. As this was over the bank holiday and we had plans, we couldn't allow viewings. The landlord said then our notice wasn't valid until the 10th because he couldn't access the property to start marketing it. - You dont have to give him access, at all. if you dont want to. What does the contract say about viewings. Not that it matters, since the law overrides this, but be interested in the limited rights he may have. We weren't happy but figured that it would probably go quickly so accepted a longer notice period. - what did the contract say about notice period?

Now the landlord says we must also pay for the check out inventory cost, because this is included in the new contract we signed. - yes you probably do. Dont sign anything you arent happy with in the future.

I've refused on the basis that we had an original agreement stating we would pay the incoming fee if he paid the outgoing. Supporting that is email correspondence directly from the landlord that says the original terms of the contract remain the same, bar the increase in notice period from 1 to 2 months. In addition, we have given a longer notice period to be accommodating and found out that the landlord used old photos to begin marketing the house before the 10th as agreed. - so stop being accomodating. change the locks and tell to to Foxtrot Oscar.

Sorry for the huge post, but do I actually have any grounds to refuse? I have asked for my tenancy deposit certificate because we never received it and keep getting told the money was lodged with TDS and I don't need a reference number. But now I'm starting to panic that he'll just withhold our deposit or take the fee out of that. - Phone the 3 schemes and ask if it's been protected. if not, sue him for the deposit and penalt 1-3x the value of the deposit.

Any help, as always, would be much appreciated

Replies in red above.

pmlindyloo

Check here to see if your deposit is protected and then follow the links.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_protection_schemes/deposit_protection_and_tenancy_deposit_schemes

I won't go into all the ins and outs of what has happened as this is over and done with.

Your question is 'do you have to pay the check out fee?

What does you new contract say? If it says you have to pay it then you do (you signed it)

If it isn't there and you have the email saying that the terms would remain the same as the original contract then don't pay it.

Do you have proof you paid the check in fee?

Doubt the LL would take you to court over this - how much is it?

DaMint

Thank you both for your replies.

Guest - the new contract (the most recent) says two months. The old said one month. The landlord said it wasn't two full months as we didn't allow viewings over the bank holiday. The contract says we have to allow viewings with 24 hours notice. I will call the schemes and see if anything has been registered - I did an online check on their websites and it said no, but I assumed I was putting in wrong information.

Lindyloo - yes, the new contract says the tenant is liable for both in and outgoing check out fees. It was completely an oversight on my part to have missed it - I am normally good with details like this. I must have trusted the assertion that the contract terms were the same as before. I have proof I paid the fee, but it was included in a payment for other things e.g a payment of £900 was taken by the initial letting agent for references(£140), holding deposit (£550) and inventory fee (£210). The landlord said the full deposit (£2100 - 6 weeks rent) was transferred by the letting agent (who took that as a separate payment) to him and he registered it

Pixie5740

Are you in England or Wales?

If so read Deposits and Ending an AST.

Your LL is talking out of his hoop. Not allowing viewings on a bank holiday doesn't impact your notice.

stator

DaMint wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies.

Guest - the new contract (the most recent) says two months. The old said one month. The landlord said it wasn't two full months as we didn't allow viewings over the bank holiday. The contract says we have to allow viewings with 24 hours notice.

What does the contract say precisely about allowing viewing?
Unless it specifically links the issue of viewings with notice period then it's irrelevant.

Guest101

DaMint wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies.

Guest - the new contract (the most recent) says two months. The old said one month. The landlord said it wasn't two full months as we didn't allow viewings over the bank holiday. The contract says we have to allow viewings with 24 hours notice. I will call the schemes and see if anything has been registered - I did an online check on their websites and it said no, but I assumed I was putting in wrong information. - And are you still fixed term or moved to periodic (monthly), if so does the contract state what happens when you move monthly, or does it say you will move to a Statutory periodic tenancy?
The Contract cant overwrite your right to quiet enjoyment. Which means in the extreme, no-one can enter your peoprty except the police with a warrant. But in practice this means that you can accept or refuse viewings. The LL can go to court to try enforce the contract, but because the two rights conflict, there is a reasonable defence for you. It's best to agree viewings with the LL and be reasonable on both sides. (I'd wager that it has absaolutely nothing to do with your notice). Unfortuntely when both you and the LL arent really equipped to deal with disputes in tenancy, ignorance prevails. So come back and ask questions, you will get good answers.

Lindyloo - yes, the new contract says the tenant is liable for both in and outgoing check out fees. It was completely an oversight on my part to have missed it - I am normally good with details like this. I must have trusted the assertion that the contract terms were the same as before. I have proof I paid the fee, but it was included in a payment for other things e.g a payment of £900 was taken by the initial letting agent for references(£140), holding deposit (£550) and inventory fee (£210). The landlord said the full deposit (£2100 - 6 weeks rent) was transferred by the letting agent (who took that as a separate payment) to him and he registered it

Rewply above in red

jjlandlord

Guest101 wrote: »

You dont have to give him access, at all. if you dont want to. What does the contract say about viewings. Not that it matters, since the law overrides this, but be interested in the limited rights he may have.

What the contract says does matter, and the law does not override it as long as it is reasonable.

A right of access is a valid way to limit quiet enjoyment, which is not an absolute right.

In addition, if the landlord has a valid right of access then the tenant saying 'no' has no value and the landlord wouldn't be in breach of anything if he still made use of his right, though it may not be wise for him to do so.

(If I had got £1 every time I wrote that I would be millionaire).

Guest101

jjlandlord wrote: »

What the contract says does matter, and the law does not override it as long as it is reasonable.

A right of access is a valid way to limit quiet enjoyment, which is not an absolute right.

In addition, if the landlord has a valid right of access then the tenant saying 'no' has no value and the landlord wouldn't be in breach of anything if he still made use of his right, though it may not be wise for him to do so.

(If I had got £1 every time I wrote that I would be millionaire).

I accept that my initial statement was slightly extreme.

Though practically of course the tenant just needs to change the lock and the LL wont be able to gain access.

The best solution is reasonableness on both parties.

The LL claiming that the notice is invalid because the tenant didnt allow viewings over the bank holiday is of course non sense and im sure you agree with that.

The tenant is of course entitled to 24 hours notice, which if written would be 48 hours really. So the LL is hoping the tenant doesnt ignore his or her calls to arrange viewings too.

It's often when you hear about LLs such as the OPs who make it up as they go along that I often feel that the Tenant should exercise their right as much as possible.

Rosetinted

DaMint wrote: »

The landlord said it wasn't two full months as we didn't allow viewings over the bank holiday.

The landlord's taking the mickey. Notice begins from the day you give it, whether or not they can get in the property to view. Who cares if they couldn't get in the flat from the second you served notice? That's their problem, not yours. If you have proof of when you served notice, you only have to pay until 2 months after that date (unless you stay in the property for longer). Tell them you're moving out when you said you were and will only pay till that date.

As for the checkout fee, I'm afraid you're up a certain creek without a paddle. If you signed a new contract that says you're liable, then you are liable. It sounds like you've been a bit too trusting and didn't thoroughly review the contract. Honest mistake, but you'll find yourself out of pocket for it. Any new contract that you signed will override the old one.

G_M

* Notice is valid from the date you serve it. Access by the LL is irrelevant to the notice period

* the amount of notice required depends if the contract is fixed term or periodic (eg monthly). And may also depend on the contract. read:

Ending an AST.

* Access by the landlord depends on the contract, but breaching the LL's contractual right of access does not affect the notice

* the inventory charge depends on what you contractually agreed when you signed the latest contract. a previous contract is irrelevant.

See also

Deposits