John Lennon Airport

pgres71

Hi,


Apologies for starting a new thread. Received a PCN from VCS in early April as my car was stopped for around 10-15 seconds outside John Lennon Airport. Followed instructions in the newbie thread and appealed to VCS. Have had a response rejecting the appeal as expected, citing ParkingEye vs Beavis with regards to the amount not being a genuine estimate of cost, they have said that it is the motorist's (does this mean driver or keeper?) responsibility to ensure that he/she is fully aware of the terms and conditions of the area and the first sentence says that they are proceeding on the reasonable assumption that I was the driver unless I can prove to the contrary. They have offered me two options paying the charge or appealing to IAS.
I gather from looking around on this forum that I should be appealing to the IAS even though the appeal is doomed. Just looking for advice on what to put in my appeal to IAS?
As a complete newbie/layman at this it strikes me that it isn't reasonable of them to assume I was the driver at all or for me to have to prove that I wasn't? Is it acceptable to put in an appeal to ISA that I wasn't the driver but have no intention of disclosing who the driver was and if this ends up in court can they insist on me naming a driver? Or should I not say either way whether I was or wasn't the driver and how do you word that? If there is no evidence that I was the driver then can I, as merely the keeper be expected to be fully aware of the terms and conditions of the area? Do I put in the appeal to ISA that I do not recognise their authority or independence and therefore do not expect the result of their appeal to predjudice any future court hearing? Is it even worth querying the amount in the wake of the Beavis case? Is there a template or any detailed advice on what to include/not include in an IAS appeal anywhere on here?


Thanks


Pgres71

ManxRed

You should be formally complaining to the DVLA that VCS have obtained the Registered Keeper details without reasonable cause, by using the electronic access under the auspices of a KADOE contract with the DVLA which states that data can only be obtained in connection with parking incidents, and not 'stopping' which is an entirely separate thing altogether.

You want it fully investigated, and will take your complaint to the ICO if required.

enfield_freddy

the DVLA answer


The DVLA's response

Thank you for your letter blah blah

DVLA takes very seriously its duty under the Data Protection Act to protect the privacy of motorists whose details it holds on its record. Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 allows the DVLA to release information from the vehicle register to anyone who can demonstrate 'reasonable cause' to have it.

We are not able to provide a definitive definition of 'parking', our responsibility is limited to a lawful release of vehicle data. However we do not consider 'stopping' a vehicle in an unauthorised area to be so different from 'parking' a vehicle in an unauthorised area as to make it incompatible with the KADOE contract.

If the vehicle is considered to be stopped (e.g. occupied) or parked (e.g. unoccupied) in an unauthorised area, this still makes an investigation by the operator necessary, and fulfils the reasonable cause criteria for the lawful release of vehicle keeper data. Therefore we do not consider there to have been a breach of the KADOE contract.

I trust this response clarifies the Agency's position on this matter

Yours sincerely,
Brian Dodge
Vehicle Data Customer Assurance and Compliance Practioner

Guys_Dad

If you can prove definitely that you were not the driver, eg if the driver was female and you are male, then you can refer them to any photos.

Also, you can state that you were the passenger and not the driver, but as this is not land as covered by POFA (Byelaws apply, although this may be in doubt if you read the contemporary thread) you decline to name the driver.

In your appeal, refer to this document that their CEO has signed stating that the airport runs under byelaws http://www.liverpoolairport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/conditions-of-use-13-14.pdf section 6 and in particular the signature of the CEO on page 2 and section 6.1.2

hoohoo

If you were not the driver appeal to the IAS on that point, because the NTK is not compliant with POFA 2012. Then, either the IAS will uphold your appeal, or you will get a ridiculous decision which shows the IAS is not fit for purpose. Win-win.

ManxRed

enfield_freddy wrote: »

the DVLA answer


The DVLA's response

Thank you for your letter blah blah

DVLA takes very seriously its duty under the Data Protection Act to protect the privacy of motorists whose details it holds on its record. Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 allows the DVLA to release information from the vehicle register to anyone who can demonstrate 'reasonable cause' to have it.

We are not able to provide a definitive definition of 'parking', our responsibility is limited to a lawful release of vehicle data. However we do not consider 'stopping' a vehicle in an unauthorised area to be so different from 'parking' a vehicle in an unauthorised area as to make it incompatible with the KADOE contract.

If the vehicle is considered to be stopped (e.g. occupied) or parked (e.g. unoccupied) in an unauthorised area, this still makes an investigation by the operator necessary, and fulfils the reasonable cause criteria for the lawful release of vehicle keeper data. Therefore we do not consider there to have been a breach of the KADOE contract.

I trust this response clarifies the Agency's position on this matter

Yours sincerely,
Brian Dodge
Vehicle Data Customer Assurance and Compliance Practioner

Which should be escalated, because it's b*ll*cks.

Traffic regulations make a distinction between stopping and parking, they are two entirely different things.

Ralph-y

this is an ongoing thread (still on the lading page)

have a read so as not to just repeat all the same info

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5209533

then post any questions

Ralph:cool: