AVIVA say I must use an IFA

agarnett

jamesd wrote: »

What you were telling Aviva is that you wanted to commence flexi-access drawdown. It' not surprising that an old fashioned firm like Aviva would require advice for that.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
That ain't the half of it!
Aviva aren't old fashioned - they constantly play at doing what they like with back books business, dreaming up all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas designed to extract as much profit as they can for themselves and to get rid of you whilst paying out as Little as possible. They never play at what you want unless there is something bigger in it for them.

Talk of "old products" versus "new products" or "modern products" by industry pro's is what you'd expect from those who can't make a living by criticising what existing providers are doing to existing products. They'd lose their provider friends easily and their requests for information would start going to the bottom of the pile.

I had comments on this board that my single Premium 2004 Aviva S32 contract is "old", or "legacy" but that hasn't stopped Aviva changing it so many times that I have an 8cm thick A4 file of close-typed print from them (doing what they want).

And most importantly, this is the first year on my 2004 policy that I have not been penalised exactly per original policy terms for transferring out, and the first year I have received a "Loyalty Bonus". The terms said specifically that I transferred out in the first 10 years then the transfer quote is always reduced.

So we need to update our pension products like yesterday, do we? Because they are like old cars, aren't they? And Financial advisers are like car salesmen perhaps? Sorry, it was iphones again this time, wasn't it? A better class of salesmen then. A new must-have product out every 18 months then? I must remember to queue from the small hours ...

Not getting at you, jamesd, because apart from the old fashioned tag you've given to Aviva, I have gladly lapped up pretty much all you've contributed to the forum, but there is some repetitive industry apologist cr¤p written by people who should know better on this forum sometimes.


Now then, as usual, there is no warning about with-profits - boring isn't it, that some old dinosaur like me keeps raising it on so many threads where with-profits hasn't been previously mentioned and many would love to be able to say "old hat - not relevant"! Aviva sold with-profits pensions contracts. Yes it sold others too. And if that applies to this one, then no need to read on if you don't want to. But Aviva changed with-profits contracts in 2009 and if you have one of those that got messed with, then basically Aviva were misselling a new concept designed to diddle you, and you and any IFA worth the salt need their head screwed on firmly before you take an early TFLS and or transfer out.

It is emerging that some policyholders who transferred out prior to February 2015 for example, may have received Transfer Quotes 10% less than now. And there is no telling that next year or in 5 years, there may be another 10% (over and above any investment Growth).

We just don't know - because Aviva have hidden it and they only uncover it when they want some for themselves and begrudgingly have to pay out to a few die-hards like me who still have a ticket to Watch their every move and share in the spoils (with my old iPhone 2 that does things an iPhone 6 wouldn't be modified to do, because the makers did that with iPhone2 and found the punters were doing too well with them!)

dunstonh

Talk of "old products" versus "new products" or "modern products" by industry pro's is what you'd expect from those who can't make a living by criticising what existing providers are doing to existing products. They'd lose their provider friends easily and their requests for information would start going to the bottom of the pile.

What a complete load of tosh. Just because you dont know what you are talking about, does not mean you can get away criticising those that do.

there is some repetitive industry apologist cr¤p written by people who should know better on this forum sometimes.

Explaining the situation is helpful to the OP. moaning about it helps no-one. The OP is looking for a solution. Not to join your stupid anti-aviva crusade.

Your posts need to come with a health warning as they are unhelpful, ill informed and completely biased.

atush

Of you can just put him on ignore like i have lol

agarnett

I think talking about pension products as iPhones is the biggest tosh in this thread, and from an FA too. Wasn't that IFA at some point or did I dream it?

You reckon my anti-Aviva messages are stupid? Why ? Do you think they'll hunt me down to shut me up or something?

As often as I criticise Aviva on MSE, you are almost always there to ridicule my criticism.

Aviva did a particularly bad thing to hundreds of thousands of policyholders in 2009. They bribed them to give up rights to full performance of the products you are suggesting should be easily ditched and swapped for something else.

You told your clients to accept the bribe. Why did you do that? Was your knowledge of the industry so poor as to not smell a rat?

Aviva attempted to bribe me with £1,000 in 2009. Because I did not accept it, I am now entitled to £5,000 which the hundreds of thousands including your clients who accepted bribes are not entitled to. And I fully expect there will be more where that came from, don't you? Or would you rather transfer them all away from the scene of the accident before they get a full understanding of who did what to whom?

Actually they should still be entitled, whether they took the bribe or not, and maybe if they keep their files nicely, even if they transfer out before they get recompense, because the whole thing was a missale to each and every one of them, wasn't it? And it seems you advised on it!

But you call my criticism of Aviva stupid. Aw, thanks, dunstonh.

Friends Life are part of Aviva now. They did almost the same thing but earlier (2001). Same sort of result, except because it is longer since they did it, I've received even more money from them which I would not have received if I took their 2001 bribe.

Stupid isn't it?

You trust an old-fashioned outfit like Norwich Union or Commercial Union, and before you know it, they've got a fancy latino sounding brand name and are up to all sorts of modern back books tricks.

Stupid to criticise though, because it's nothing out of the ordinary now, is it?

atush

I swear I just heard a tumbleweed roll across the board

iwannbejockmctavish

Well, I will contact Hargreaves Landsdowne with a view to updating and possibly moving my pension pot. Interesting comments, I must say. On another note, looking at my projected figures online, Aviva state that my transfer value matches the actual fund. Does that mean there is no penalty payment to transfer or would there be another nasty lurking in the small print?

agarnett

If Aviva have clearly stated that the transfer value is the fund value, then it almost certainly will not be a with-profits contract, because with those, Aviva declare a "fund value" for years in Annual Statements which barely changes, and then they mess with constructing very obtuse "terminal bonus" and adjustments to suit themselves when you ask for a transfer value. The "fund value" and "transfer value" can then be remarkably different, and consequently transfer values quoted from one month to the next can also vary significantly.

At least with their other types of fund (like yours it seems), you should broadly know where you are from one year to the next because for the most part the one equals the other.

Sounds like in your case you just have to make sure there are no lucrative guarantees within your particular contract which would be lost on transfer to another provider.

iwannbejockmctavish

@agarnett, just looking at the product and it is described as 'Your Pension @ Aviva (Stakeholder) (Pre 13.12.04)' there is no mention of with profits, I will discuss with Aviva before I take any action.

dunstonh

he product and it is described as 'Your Pension @ Aviva (Stakeholder) (Pre 13.12.04)' there is no mention of with profits, I will discuss with Aviva before I take any action.

Stakeholder pensions are a basic product with basic terms and features. That would explain why you cant do all the pension freedoms. That product was also withdrawn from business a good many years ago.

Ignore his comments on With Profits.

Aviva state that my transfer value matches the actual fund. Does that mean there is no penalty payment to transfer or would there be another nasty lurking in the small print?

Correct. That is a requirement of a stakeholder pension.

agarnett

I think what dunstonh really meant to say was that as yours is not with-profits, you may ignore my comments on Aviva with-profits antics if you wish. But other readers might wish to take them onboard as they scan the forum.

And because 14 years is "many years ago" to a live-for-today / keep-on-trucking financial adviser, then stakeholder pensions may be a bit boring to have to discuss at anything up to the 14 years that may have passed since they were first sold - never mind that some people might expect a pension product to be intended for a long haul of perhaps double that distance :rotfl:

However, Google is your friend, and, in addition to that Wikipedia page which alludes to some of the rules e.g. no penalty on exit which dunstonh has confirmed, this document would cause me to ask Aviva a question, especially as it looks like a unilateral change made by Aviva at about the same time they were seriously messing with the with-profits funds in early 2008.

The initial question would be "Did this change affect mine?" - because the exact phrase 'Your Pension @ Aviva (Stakeholder) (Pre 13.12.04)' does not appear, but very similar titled products do appear to the extent that yours may originally have been called a 'Your Pension @ Norwich Union – Stakeholder pre 13/12/04'.
Then, if the answer is in the affirmative, "What was the fund switch to and from, and why?" and maybe "why did Aviva slightly change the name of my product - was it to throw me off the scent when I Googled?" Yes I am very cynical, aren't I!

And also a 2005 commission change when read in conjunction with the Wikipedia page suggests that your policy did not suffer the following higher commission rates paid to advisers on the later 2005 on modified stakeholder plans. (A good thing perhaps!)

[SIZE=-1]Individual Your Pension(Stakeholder)Commission will be increased on single premium business from 2.5%plus uplift up to 5.04% plus uplift

Commission will be increased on regular paymentbusiness from 10% Lautro plus uplift to 40% Lautro plus uplift"[/SIZE]

An FA may be able to interpret that if so disposed! Lautro was one of many failed life insurance regulators that several steps back preceded the latest iteration of failing regulators.

There seems to be literature available for the post 31.12.04 Aviva stakeholder plans but none for yours easily available online. Maybe Aviva don't want just anyone looking at the detail. I expect as an FA, dunstonh has better access than the general public, so if you ask nicely, he may be able to tell you a bit more