Does poor signage ever win at POPLA?

BaileysNose

Just submitted a POPLA appeal for ParkingEye - a stay of 18 mins in a carpark that was £2.00 all day monitored by ANPR. Half the time was getting in and out of the carpark through awkward bollards. There is no outward facing sign as you drive in to the carpark at all (just a large P sign). Most of the large signs are parking amounts and the small ones with the penalty notice and t&cs are small and easy to miss. I included pictures as evidence with the appeal. It seems a blatant flout of the BPA rules on signage and I have tried hard to show my case (as well as all the usual stuff about getting PE to prove otherwise).

But do POPLA ever award on signage? So many past cases were GPEOL - not that its not relevant in this case (and I still included it saying why different from Beavis).

Annoyingly I also managed to get hold of the landowner who verbally said he would cancel the ticket - I sent him a copy of the ticket and he said he would deal with it. Never to be heard from again.

Aaron_Aadvark

Yes,

See post 2

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337

Redx

it also wins in court too, like at fistral beach with PE and the ukcps one where the judge described the signage as "gobbledegook" or similar wording

BaileysNose

Thanks - not often though is it. Maybe because until now GPEOL was stronger. Is there any way to see the detail of these cases?

There is no way this will go to court the RK will not want the hassle. I it were me I would do it!

ColliesCarer

There's also Martin Cutts against Excel - though some time ago now.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the POPLA assessors only need to find one challenge to find in favour of the appellant on. They don't then have to rule on each one.

No Gpeol was such a winning point in the past it's skewed the results somewhat and appeals that might also have won on signage were hidden.

Edit - to see the detail you can check the POPLA's Decision thread Aaron pointed you to - start with highest winning post numbers in the list of winning POPLAs (therefore most recent) - then click on the OP username and select find threads - within which you will often find the POPLA they submitted.

The_Deep

Have a look at this

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/motorist-wins-18-month-ticket-battle-870812

Coupon-mad

Follow up the complaint to the retailer - NOW.

BaileysNose

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Follow up the complaint to the retailer - NOW.

I have followed up. Initially I emailed him - he called me back and verbally stated he would get the fine dropped. He said he would let me know when it was done. I heard nothing more so texted him on the original number to ask if he received the fine details and then followed up again by email. He hasnt responded - its not a retailer as such its a local company who I believe own the land (it was really difficult to find out). Its a car park where a building was demolished near a train station - they charge more in the week for all day parking for commuters (the alleged incident was on a Sunday in an empty car park for 18 minutes). It doesnt serve any shops.

They guy was very understanding on the phone but nothing has resulted. As the POPLA deadline was nearing I thought it best to just submit the appeal.

The_Deep

If it is a pay and display car park do not accept any guff from the PPC about Beavis. If they mention it make sure that they say the COA decision is being appealed, also Commercial Justification does not and say that the charge is not a GPEOL.

BaileysNose

The_Deep wrote: »

If it is a pay and display car park do not accept any guff from the PPC about Beavis. If they mention it make sure that they say the COA decision is being appealed, also Commercial Justification does not and say that the charge is not a GPEOL.

Yep - in the appeal I said not the same as Beavis, no commercial justification etc etc. Just hoping the poor signage will be enough to win on its own. There is no notice on the way in that its an ANPR car park - just a big P on the entrance, by the time you have maneuvered in past the very narrow bollards and used your binoculars on the tiny very high up signs you would be too late.

Guys_Dad

If it is a blatant flouting of the BPA guidelines, then you should invest a few minutes highlighting where the signs fail, with pictures cross referenced to the BPA CoP.

In my opinion, a judge would be less sympathetic to a motorise who parked in a P&D car park, paid nothing and left than to anyone who overstayed a free one or similar, so best try to get a win at POPLA.

Also, of course, demand that the PPC produces a proper contract with the landowner and do try through the local council to find out who the landowner is. If the contract the PPC has is with a leaseholder rather than the landowner, then you should challenge that as there has to be a direct paper train from PPC to landowner.