Estate Administration - Sibling/NOK dilemma

KMA

hi there my father passed away recently in hospital.


He was divorced 30 years ago but living with his partner for at least 20 years. The other next of kin is my sibling who still lives in the area. I live a considerable distance away (several hundred miles) and have mobility issues.


My sibling was out of the country on holiday when they were informed of his death. They then called me to let me know and I assured them I would do what I could for them remotely in their absence to progress funeral arrangements etc so they could continue their holiday plans which reassured them at the time. I then attempted to make contact with my dad's partner, who also was in hospital, who I found out was unaware of his death and very ill so I left a message for their adult child to contact me.


In the meanwhile, I followed the guide on what to do on MSE, which has been very helpful. I registered the death from my own city/liaised with the coroner as there was an autopsy required and instructed the local funeral company.


I spoke to dad's partner's daughter who was able to find information out from my father's paperwork kept at her mother's house for me to help identify whether there was a pre-paid funeral plan that he had recently mentioned to me (YES) and if there was a will/named executor (NO).


I held off setting a funeral date until my sibling returned and waited until dad's partner was out of hospital so she can attend. I do not know dad's partner very well so I had to tread delicately via her daughter (whom I've never met not spoken to before) in order to get an understanding of what my dad's wishes/preferences might be regarding the funeral content and ceremony etc.


Dad's partners daughter asked on her mum's behalf whether me & my sibling could take over my dad's funeral arrangements given her mum was so ill so I agreed, making sure to include her input. That appears to have gone as well as it could possibly go.


My relationship with my father was distant however, we had communicated by letter, phone and occasional text in recent months but not face to face. My younger sibling saw him more frequently because they live nearby but their relationship was rocky at times.


Now my sibling has returned from their holiday they are very angry, upset and probably feeling guilty because they say they did not get the opportunity to say goodbye to our dad.


They are also angry in that I have progressed the funeral plans in their absence and now saying that they have not had an input, despite me calling and emailing them, they did not reply, even now they are back in the UK. I explained that I had to register the death in 5 days which was when they were away etc.


Dad had decided what type of funeral he wanted etc so there were not that many choices to make, except setting a date.
The content of the ceremony I have left to be decided by my sibling and dad's partner to pull together as they know him better than I, this is where I have stepped back it seems appropriate to let them take over now they are here and able...


I appreciate that people experience grief in different ways but my sibling thinks because I live far away and was more distant in my interaction with dad that I am not entitled to have an input, if that makes sense?


Also, it looks like we may (as siblings) apply to administer my fathers estate, potentially together, if no will is located.


I almost feel like that my sibling wants me to walk away and for them to deal with it all going forward. It would in some ways be far easier for me to walk away rather than continue if it becomes increasingly acrimonious. I don't want to do that


However, I don't believe they appreciate how potentially big/daunting this task will be. Particularly keeping accurate administrative, legal and financial records plus emotionally.


In the absence of seeing any information I anticipate my fathers estate is relatively small (No IHT), no property, just a car, his personal possessions maybe some savings - he was retired.


Any advice for facing the emotionally charged next steps in tackling the estate following the funeral?. I feel that whatever I suggest or volunteer to do will be thrown back at me by my sibling. I find doing paperwork fairly straightforward and I feel t would be a useful contribution for me to make as part of my grieving process.


There is also the real risk that if the sibling decides takes it on themselves they will just sit on the paperwork and not do anything with it.


thank you for reading this, sorry it is very long. I could not find a thread that covered this issue off so appreciate your insights.

G6JNS

KMA wrote: »

hi there my father passed away recently in hospital.


He was divorced 30 years ago but living with his partner for at least 20 years. The other next of kin is my sibling who still lives in the area. I live a considerable distance away (several hundred miles) and have mobility issues.


My sibling was out of the country on holiday when they were informed of his death. They then called me to let me know and I assured them I would do what I could for them remotely in their absence to progress funeral arrangements etc so they could continue their holiday plans which reassured them at the time. I then attempted to make contact with my dad's partner, who also was in hospital, who I found out was unaware of his death and very ill so I left a message for their adult child to contact me.


In the meanwhile, I followed the guide on what to do on MSE, which has been very helpful. I registered the death from my own city/liaised with the coroner as there was an autopsy required and instructed the local funeral company.


I spoke to dad's partner's daughter who was able to find information out from my father's paperwork kept at her mother's house for me to help identify whether there was a pre-paid funeral plan that he had recently mentioned to me (YES) and if there was a will/named executor (NO).


I held off setting a funeral date until my sibling returned and waited until dad's partner was out of hospital so she can attend. I do not know dad's partner very well so I had to tread delicately via her daughter (whom I've never met not spoken to before) in order to get an understanding of what my dad's wishes/preferences might be regarding the funeral content and ceremony etc.


Dad's partners daughter asked on her mum's behalf whether me & my sibling could take over my dad's funeral arrangements given her mum was so ill so I agreed, making sure to include her input. That appears to have gone as well as it could possibly go.


My relationship with my father was distant however, we had communicated by letter, phone and occasional text in recent months but not face to face. My younger sibling saw him more frequently because they live nearby but their relationship was rocky at times.


Now my sibling has returned from their holiday they are very angry, upset and probably feeling guilty because they say they did not get the opportunity to say goodbye to our dad.


They are also angry in that I have progressed the funeral plans in their absence and now saying that they have not had an input, despite me calling and emailing them, they did not reply, even now they are back in the UK. I explained that I had to register the death in 5 days which was when they were away etc.


Dad had decided what type of funeral he wanted etc so there were not that many choices to make, except setting a date.
The content of the ceremony I have left to be decided by my sibling and dad's partner to pull together as they know him better than I, this is where I have stepped back it seems appropriate to let them take over now they are here and able...


I appreciate that people experience grief in different ways but my sibling thinks because I live far away and was more distant in my interaction with dad that I am not entitled to have an input, if that makes sense?


Also, it looks like we may (as siblings) apply to administer my fathers estate, potentially together, if no will is located.


I almost feel like that my sibling wants me to walk away and for them to deal with it all going forward. It would in some ways be far easier for me to walk away rather than continue if it becomes increasingly acrimonious. I don't want to do that


However, I don't believe they appreciate how potentially big/daunting this task will be. Particularly keeping accurate administrative, legal and financial records plus emotionally.


In the absence of seeing any information I anticipate my fathers estate is relatively small (No IHT), no property, just a car, his personal possessions maybe some savings - he was retired.


Any advice for facing the emotionally charged next steps in tackling the estate following the funeral?. I feel that whatever I suggest or volunteer to do will be thrown back at me by my sibling. I find doing paperwork fairly straightforward and I feel t would be a useful contribution for me to make as part of my grieving process.


There is also the real risk that if the sibling decides takes it on themselves they will just sit on the paperwork and not do anything with it.


thank you for reading this, sorry it is very long. I could not find a thread that covered this issue off so appreciate your insights.

I am sorry to hear of your loss and problems. It is difficult to know what to advise other than to try and talk to the other relatives and try and calm the situation down. If there is no will the someone will need to apply for letters of administration. Try and explain that the admin needs to be dealt with and that you are willing to take it on given access to all the paperwork. Plenty of help here if you need it.

konark

I can't see what you've done wrong. As you say, a death needs to be registered in 5 days and funeral plans need to be made, so the funeral director can book cars and crematorium. It can't all be left on hold whilst some fool finishes sunning themselves on the beach. If your sister had relly wanted an input she could have cut her holiday short and attended to things. Obviously she wasn't prepared to do that but is now throwing her toys around because she's not centre-stage. Your sister comes across as one of those people who think 'it's all about me'.

KMA

Thank you for reading and the replies so far. Yes, I am hoping that when I go to my family home town in advance of the funeral that I can resolve some of these issues with the various interested parties far more easily face to face rather than by phone, email, letter and in my sibling's case occasional text messages supplemented only by late night shouty drunken rants on the phone, normally when they are not getting agreement from others to their increasingly bizarre & extravagant demands.:eek:


Requests for simple basic decisions relating to the funeral organisation arrangements themselves (eg what to do with ashes, part of the basic funeral contract) are not being responded to, communicated or shared by the sibling.


It forces me to make decisions to a certain timeframe if no response which then makes it more difficult and seems that I am being "pushy":(


To clarify, regarding the holiday situation, I received notification of my father's death from my sibling who had just arrived on holiday. So it was me, who suggested that they stay and make the best of their time off in the sun, get some rest, grieve and that I would pick up the arrangements whilst they were away so they would not need to worry unnecessarily of lack of progress from being abroad. It was my way of trying to calm and reassure them I suppose.


I don't recall us actually having a discussion about the possibility of them coming home early as I was in a state of shock from the call. They certainly did not offer to do so but I would put that down to panic from the news on their part.


I guess I put my rational hat on and went into practical (rather than emotional) mode as that is the way I tackle what life throws at me usually...


FWIW, I see my contribution to my father's wishes on his death as being practical in nature and it seems fitting to me to be able to contribute to that process as my way of dealing with bereavement if you see what I mean.


My dilemma is: what happens if my sibling is unable and/or unwilling to co-operate? I am pretty flexible in how we celebrate his life, we just need to get this funeral initiated to proceed, grieve and pick up the pieces afterwards.


Sorry, I feel like I am venting but I am unable to share this with people in RL, because of the situation. I would dearly love for my sibling to be able to provide me with some mutual support than make it more difficult than it already is...

getmore4less

Would it be possible for you to take some time and be more local for say a week around the funeral time for everyone to kick start the process jointly.

You can get the paperwork pack from any probate office or download the forms.

Armed with a what to do guide it might be easier to do a heres what we need to do next chat around the same table than over the phone/letter/email.

edit: cross post, you have that angle covered

TBagpuss

You don't need to rush. Ashes can be held (either by one of you or the funeral home) for a while if you need time to (collectively) decide what you want to do with them.

You and your sibling can apply jointly for letters of administration which would allow you to decide between you who does what, moving forward, and might ensure that they don't simply let things slide, without making them feel excluded.

I think you are probably might that at some level they feel guilty for having been away when it happened, and they are lashing out at you because you are an easy target. Is it possible that your sibling resents the fact that you have included your dad's partner?
You might find it is helpful to follow up any conversation with an e-mail - this allows you to confirm any questions or commnts you have, you can also add in comments recognising their inpput.

e,.g

"Dear [name]
I wanted to follow up on our phone conversation to make sure I understood correctly and that we're both on the same page - I understand that you are going to contact the funeral directions and decide [whatever - flowers / type of service / confirm style of coffin and to check that dad's policy will cover everyhting]. I'll have another word with [Partner's daughter] and let you know what she is suggesting about the service, and hen you can decide if you're happy with that.
You have agreed to go through dad's papers and make a list of who else we need to tell, and in the mean time we agreed that I would fill in the forms to let us apply jointly for letters of administration and will send those on to you to sign.
I feel it would be helpful for us to try to get the paperwork done as soon as we can so it isn't hanging over our heads but if you need more time let me know. "

Or whatever is appropriate.

People do grieve differently - it sounds as though your reaction is to be very practical, and try to get things sorted. I understand that as I am similar, but not everyone is, your sibling may eel that they are being rushed into doing things, or making decisions, too fast.

Particularly when it comes to things which can't be undone (style of the funeral, what you do with the ashes / getting rid of personal items) it may be better to wait a little until you are both ready to make a decision, rather than have one of you feel 'bounced' into making choices before you're ready.

KMA

thanks for your replies so far. This has given me food for thought.


The funeral is approaching, we now have a date set.


I will see how that goes, see how my sibling is not do any more until that stage is over.


Then maybe we can reflect / review how the funeral went - what we've learnt about the process and about ourselves as it is our first time of having to be the 'grown ups'.


Only then maybe we will start to look at the paper trail and offer to find out about the options going forwards.

I am sure it will be easier to convey my sincerity more easily face to face than by phone/email/text/letter.

Has any one else had experiences of coping with emotional reactions to dealing with estate wind-up/administration process and how to best divide up the tasks to reflect the individual strengths and the bits where a more collective approach is better for creating a positive enduring sibling/other surviving relative bond?

The logical and procedural stuff is quite mechanical it is the soft 'fuzzy' stuff that I struggle with as I normally am so task oriented in most aspects of my life...

I am finding listening to music and journaling is really helping me with dealing with the emotional grieving aspects and suddenly feel very very tired now we have an actual funeral date and time looming.


thanks for reading so far...

cte1111

I have had experience of dealing with this kind of fall out. I'm not sure there's much more that you could have done to try and ensure that everyone was involved. Your sibling possibly presumed that not much would get done whilst they were away, but I think you were quite right to do what you did.

I tend to deal with practical matters to help myself deal with emotional issues, but in this case perhaps it would be an idea to leave things until after the funeral. Try and reassure yo ur sibling that you weren't trying to take over and that you respect their closer relationship with your Dad, you were just trying to help so they wouldn't have to deal with everything by themself.

For the estate administration, give it a few more weeks or so before trying to decide what to do. Find some support for yourself too, as it sounds like the funeral and run up to it are going to be stressful and difficult. If you've got a close friend who could join you for at least part of it, then this could be a life saver.

We've had a few bereavements in recent years and none of them were easy to deal with either emotionally or logistically, with conflicts of ideas and people who thought they should be consulted and 'in charge' but actually didn't really want to do any work. I can't say there's any magic formula to make everything work, all you can do is try your best and give yourself some credit for what you have done.

KMA

Now that we have reached a year since my father's death I wanted to thank everybody for their input.

I ended up applying for the letters of administration. Had done a will search and there was no will.

Now in the process of trying to wind up the estate, chasing some loose ends.

Ended up doing all the paperwork on my own without the need for a solicitor- it wasn't too daunting. Used the "Which guide" recommended on this board really useful.

Relationship with sibling remains strained, she is still not the most communicative of people and has apparently recently left the country without forwarding address. My last letter to her requested new contact details so that she can receive her share of the estate once it is complete. I included a Stamped Addressed Envelope for her to post it back to me (apparently she never has stamps is one of her stock excuses!) but nothing....

I suspect I may require some professional expertise in tracing her, informing her of the final estate (once settled) and arrangements for her to collect it/ deliver it to her.

Anyone with any experience of this I'd welcome your insight. It is making an already difficult task really emotionally challenging

Yorkshireman99

KMA wrote: »

Now that we have reached a year since my father's death I wanted to thank everybody for their input.

I ended up applying for the letters of administration. Had done a will search and there was no will.

Now in the process of trying to wind up the estate, chasing some loose ends.

Ended up doing all the paperwork on my own without the need for a solicitor- it wasn't too daunting. Used the "Which guide" recommended on this board really useful.

Relationship with sibling remains strained, she is still not the most communicative of people and has apparently recently left the country without forwarding address. My last letter to her requested new contact details so that she can receive her share of the estate once it is complete. I included a Stamped Addressed Envelope for her to post it back to me (apparently she never has stamps is one of her stock excuses!) but nothing....

I suspect I may require some professional expertise in tracing her, informing her of the final estate (once settled) and arrangements for her to collect it/ deliver it to her.

Anyone with any experience of this I'd welcome your insight. It is making an already difficult task really emotionally challenging

There are professional tracing services but they do cost and their is no guarantee of success. Given your sibling is so uncooperative. I would hold the money separately for six years after which she can no longer recover it by suing.